The Vogue of Witchcraft...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by MustardSeed, May 16, 2008.

  1. MustardSeed

    MustardSeed
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    I'm sure that you are aware of the current trend in our popular culture in regards to witchcraft, shows such as "Charmed" on TV which glorifies so called "good witches", as well as the disturbing trend of the wiccian "religion" (As if browsing the herb section of the grocery store, lighting candles, and then reciting gobbledygook could ever be considered a religion!).

    What made me think of this topic is the fact that my daughter recently attended a birthday party which featured a magician. It seemed pretty innocuous at first, the magician did mostly card tricks. But talking to him after the performance, I learned that his legal name was Pan. From what I recall that is the name of a pagan demon of some sort, which made me immediately uncomfortable. After talking to this person further, I got the feeling that he was very menacing and I immediately took my daughter home.

    My question to you is.

    1. Is it possible that this person was actually using deamonic forces to reveal the two of clubs I picked out of a full deck of cards?

    or if not,

    2. Am I overreacting?
     
  2. Amy.G

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    I don't think slight of hand card tricks have any demonic influence behind them, but anyone involved in magic is suspect in my opinion. We are told to have nothing to do with it. I don't think card tricks fall into this category. I learned some card tricks when I was a child that were done mathematically, but it appeard to be "mysterious".
    However, a lot of magicians are also involved in the occult.

    Here is a definition of "Pan" on wikipedia


    I don't think you're overreacting. If you feel something is amiss in your spirit, you should listen to it.
     
    #2 Amy.G, May 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2008
  3. donnA

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    You don't need demonic forces to do card tricks.
    Once you talked to him and found him to have some wiccan religion then I wouldn't say you over reacted.
    I am wondering thought what you mean by 'very menacing'.
     
  4. MustardSeed

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    As best as I can put it, he had very penetrating eyes that made me feel cold and hollow inside.

    I am aware of how silly this may sound, but I was supremely uncomfortable shaking hands with this man, his grip was cold and hard like steel.
     
  5. donnA

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    I see,
    did he say anything about witch craft or anything demonic?
    Other then the usual stuff that comes from unbeleivers.
     
  6. Palatka51

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    I have a very good friend that is very talented in slight of hand tricks. I have even seen him removing a wrist watch off a persons arm and then he put it on his own wrist without the person even knowing that he did it. Very amazing stuff. There are reasonable explanations to everything they do. They make money by not telling the average Joe how the trick is done. Truth is, every trick is so simple that if the mystery were to be disclosed, they would have to earn a living just like the rest of us.

    Witchcraft in the Biblical sense is the use of potions and poisons. Drugs that put people in trances and such.
     
    #6 Palatka51, May 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2008
  7. just-want-peace

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    I personally feel that what you felt was the prompting of the Holy Spirit to get yourself away from something that was in no way beneficial to you!

    To the average Joe, and unfortunately to many on this board, you were just being paronoid because------(they will fill in the blank), and over-reacting.

    IMNSHO, you did the right thing. This is known as DISCERNMENT, and w/o the HS you would probably have noticed nothing except a very entertaining performer.

    Once I took my family to Disney in Fla, and stopped in St Augustine en-route home for a bite to eat. We walked in the restaurant (no customers yet, ~4:30 PM) and were seated. After about 1-2 minutes my wife & I looked at each other and made some comment about being very uncomfortable there.

    We decided almost simultaneously that something was not "kosher" & each of us had a feeling of evil there.

    We left immediately, and to this day I have no idea what it was, but for both of us to feel the same thing was just TOO coincendental for me to say it was just nerves.

    Anyway, I practice such and will vacate a place if that "nudge" ever comes again; with no apologies or hesitation.
     
  8. Baptist Believer

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    I wouldn't worry a bit about card tricks, they created by illusion and misdirection.

    You need to do what you believe is the right thing to do for you and your child. It sounds like this guy might be pagan (possibly wiccan) and the Holy Spirit in you may have given you discernment regarding him.

    Personally, I've run into the same kind of thing where I have met someone and realized that they were involved in demonic activities on the basis of the very negative spiritual "vibe" I got from them. In those cases, if possible, I will often ask them about their religious perspective and they'll often tell me they are pagan.
     
  9. seraphim79

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    I'm not sure that card tricks need supernatural help to be completed. We have a friend who is really good at card tricks, I mean completely amazing. the first time he does one for you, you really start to wonder if there is a demon involved. But he always shows us the trick, and honestly it is always something soooo simple that it is almost more fun to not know how it is done.

    But that doesn't mean that this guy "Pan" was clear and free. If you had a weird feeling around him, I think it was best that you did what your gut told you.
     
  10. seraphim79

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    I'm not surprised about your reaction in St. Augustine, while it is a great historical city, there is a lot of Wiccaan(sp?) and "new age" stuff that goes on there. Good for you for honoring this feeling (probably a gift from the holy spirit) and leaving.
     
  11. David Lamb

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    You would need more information to go on, I think. Specifically, you would need to know that he was using demonic forces, rather than sleight of hand, to perform his tricks. It is a pity that we use the same word to mean "an entertainer who performs conjuring tricks and illusion" and "someone who practices sorcery".


    Pan was one of the many "gods" worshipped by the ancient Greeks. He was said to be the god of herds, flocks, fertility, forests, and wildlife. Not sure what the connection is with conjuring tricks! Those Greek gods were not demons (nor, of course, were they true gods). They were mere statues. Psalm 115.4-7:
    4 Their idols are silver and gold, The work of men’s hands. 5 They have mouths, but they do not speak; Eyes they have, but they do not see; 6 They have ears, but they do not hear; Noses they have, but they do not smell; 7 They have hands, but they do not handle; Feet they have, but they do not walk; Nor do they mutter through their throat.

     
    #11 David Lamb, May 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2008
  12. Michele

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    the vogue ofwitchcraft

    Fully agree with you!

    Miche
     
  13. HankD

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    I know some Christians are offended by "magic" tricks.

    However, any Christian should know the difference between "slight-of-hand" and "magic" or demonic activity.

    Personally, I would categorize Tarot card readings and Ouija Board activities in the latter
    but not slight-of-hand tricks.


    HankD
     
  14. Jon-Marc

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    I know from personal experience that it is possible for a believer to sense the presence of satan in or near someone, because it happened to me. I was going door-to-door and came across a man and immediately felt the presence of satan, and I became very ill and sick to my stomach.

    Another time the opposite happened. I approached a couple and immediately felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in them. I told them that I felt foolish asking them if they were saved, and they assured me that they were. Of course, I already knew that since God's presence was so strong.

    God can give us a discerning spirit to know the difference and not be fooled by outward appearance.
     
  15. KenH

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    Was this at night time? Perhaps he is one of the living dead, perhaps a vampire?

    Sounds like a story line from the old gothic soap opera "Dark Shadows" that my wife and I are currently watching. :)
     
  16. Magnetic Poles

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    :laugh: All I can say is, that it must be pretty scary living in fear of the devil popping up all over the place. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Sopranette

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    Pan was also an ancient Greek god of mischief, who would often seduce and kidnap young women. That a man entertaining young children calls himself "Pan" IS a little disturbing. Also, wiccans believe they themselves are a door between this world and the spiritual world, and that "spirits", whatever their nature might be, good or evil, can pass through these doors at any time (although most wiccans believe they have some control over this).

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  18. Palatka51

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    People do tend to scare themselves more than anything Satan himself can conger up, don't they? Any form of witchcraft is easily dismissed as falsehood. Houdini made a second name for himself by exposing their craft as clever tricks. Nothing to them folks but simple slight of hand.

    I would spend the night in a grave yard on Halloween before I would spend one hour alone in the cell of a hardened criminal like Charles Manson. It's not the dead you should fear but the live ones.

    This Pan and the rest of Greek myth are nothing more than the imaginations of men. I suggest that any comic book "super hero" can give you a good grasp of the human imagination than anything the Greeks worshiped.
     
  19. ajg1959

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    Are you saying that the devil is not real?

    I cant believe that you and Ken would make fun of this person who has a real concern for the spiritual safety of their child. For your information, wiccan covens are springing up all over the nation, and growing every day. I'll bet you live very close to one and dont even know it.

    If we are not vigilant and watch closely over our children then it is entirely possible for them to come into contact with with these pagan groups.

    I applaud mustardseed for protecting the child by not taking a chance, and you should be ashamed for making fun of them.

    AJ
     
    #19 ajg1959, May 19, 2008
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  20. David Lamb

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    You may well be right - I had never heard of this, so I did a Google search for "Greek God of Mischief". There were very few "hits" - just 563. Several of those refer to Loki as the Greek god of mischief! (Loki was in fact the Norse god of mischief). Do you have a reference for Pan being the Greek god of mischief?

    I still say that we would need to know more before condemning this entertainer as a wiccan. We don't even know why he calls himself Pan. As he is a children's entertainer, it seems to me more likely to have a connection with J. M. Barrie's "Peter Pan" than with Greek mythology. I see from the OP that it was only in conversation after the man's performance that MustardSeed became uncomfortable and got the feeling that this "Pan" was menacing, so presumably the performance was not menacing.
     

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