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The Wicked Bible and the Wicked War

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Brother James, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Just where or when did Bush ever invoke the name of God, when starting this war? He may have somewhere asked for God's blessing, but as for saying he was doing this for God's sake, uh uh. No where that I've ever seen.

    Invoking God's name as a reason for making war is something Muslim extremists do.

    And without commenting on the rightness/wrongness of the war in Iraq, I will make the statement that the sooner the US realizes that the Muslims are waging a "Holy" War the better we will be. This war isn't and never has been just a war about territory and who controls it as our past wars have been. This war is for hearts and minds and if we can't be converted to Islam by choice then we are infidel dogs who deserve to die.

    The choice the US (and other countries) are going to be forced to make is whether we die willingly or we kill those who wish our deaths. We will have to be willing to make martyers of those who seek to impose their religious ideals upon the world in order to stop the terrorism that is being committed in "Allah's" name. Until we are ready to completely stamp out and entire religious belief/culture, there will be no end to this.

    And if we do so, will we be any better than Hitler?
     
  2. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    "The choice the US (and other countries) are going to be forced to make is whether we die willingly or we kill those who wish our deaths. We will have to be willing to make martyers of those who seek to impose their religious ideals upon the world in order to stop the terrorism that is being committed in "Allah's" name. Until we are ready to completely stamp out and entire religious belief/culture, there will be no end to this."


    I can just imagine Christ telling the apostles to kill those who wished thier death or the apostle Paul telling the gentile christians to kill all the pagans. Think about what you're saying brother. There will never be an end of violence on this earth till Christ comes back. I see no scripture telling Christians to get involved in it though. To the contrary, we are to seperate ourselves from this world for it lieth in wickedness.
     
  3. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, [is] from the LORD.


    Pro 16:2 All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.


    Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.


    Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


    Pro 16:5 Every one [that is] proud in heart [is] an abomination to the LORD: [though] hand [join] in hand, he shall not be unpunished.


    Pro 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.


    Pro 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.


    Pro 16:8 Better [is] a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.


    Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.


    Pro 16:10 A divine sentence [is] in the lips of the king: his mouth transgresseth not in judgment.


    Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance [are] the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag [are] his work.


    Pro 16:12 [It is] an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.
     
  4. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    SuperBaptist said:

    The laws of men say such murder is legal. The laws of God say "Turn the other cheek."

    Once again you prove that you do not know the Scriptures. Jesus was forbidding retaliation against personal insult, not the use of force by civil government.

    Just because the church is forbidden to use force, that does not mean that the government is.

    Jesus was clever to say, "Render under Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." Did he really answer the question given him?

    The question was whether it was lawful to pay taxes, and he pointed out that since the coins had the imprint of Caesar on them, in a sense they were Caesar's property. So yes, he did answer the question he was asked.

    They are killing because Caesar told them to.

    Caesar has the authority to tell them to, because

    (You will notice that I did not quote from the "scribes of King James," so you may lose that particular straw man at your convenience.)
     
  5. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Brother James said:

    Are you trying to say that our government is not bound by any Biblical rules or the law of God?

    No, the government of the United States is not bound by the covenant God made with the ancient nation-state of Israel.
     
  6. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    So God will not hold them in account for wicked behaviour? Afterall, he has always judged wicked nations for thier abominations hasn't he? I wonder what He's got in store for this Christ rejecting baby killing crowd.
     
  7. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    So God will not hold them in account for wicked behaviour?

    If he does, it won't be by the same covenantal standard as he held Israel.
     
  8. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    All unsaved sinners, including government officals will be judged by the law of God. Until you're under the covenant of grace you're under the covenant of works. Face it brother, the "whole world lieth in wickedness" and Washington DC leads the way.
     
  9. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    I think we're slacking off. [​IMG] Perhaps we could behead a few tourists to catch up.
     
  10. SuperBaptist

    SuperBaptist New Member

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    Amazing how some make light of such darkness. At this point in the war, we have killed far more of them than they have us, and we have created far more terror as we do it in THEIR homeland. Lest we forget, Iraq and its citizens had nothing to do with 9/11. Of course, they do all look alike.(Note: my making light of this)
     
  11. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    At this point in the war, we have killed far more of them than they have us

    And yet the moonbats still want us to think we're losing. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Brother James said:

    Until you're under the covenant of grace you're under the covenant of works.

    Wrong. The Gentile nations were never under the Law of Moses.
     
  13. Dave

    Dave Member
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    Amazing how some people view the United States as the leader of wickedness in the world! How did we ever pass people like Sadaam, Khadafy and Libya, Sudan with their current genocidal war, Milosevic, Ruwanda, and I could probably name several more with a little thought. How about the Palestinian Authority with Hamas in charge.

    Wickedness takes many forms, and the US can take credit for a lot, but let's not go overboard with assigning a title like that. I am sure there are many in the world who would like to think of themselves as having that role.
     
  14. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    The nations will be judged by the Law of God. No they were not given the Mosaic convenant but they will be judged nontheless. They will be judged by God's standard of right-THE LAW, if they do not submit themselves to the end of the law, the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  15. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    Deu 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.

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    Deu 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
     
  16. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.

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    2Ki 17:8 And walked in the statutes of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel, and of the kings of Israel, which they had made.

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    2Ki 17:11 And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as [did] the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger:

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    2Ki 17:15 And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that [were] round about them, [concerning] whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them.

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    2Ki 21:2 And he did [that which was] evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

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    1Ch 16:24 Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.

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    1Ch 16:35 And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, [and] glory in thy praise.

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    2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, [art] not thou God in heaven? and rulest [not] thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand [is there not] power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

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    2Ch 28:3 Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.

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    2Ch 33:2 But did [that which was] evil in the sight of the LORD, like unto the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.

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    2Ch 33:9 So Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err, [and] to do worse than the heathen, whom the LORD had destroyed before the children of Israel.

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    2Ch 36:14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the LORD which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.

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    Ezr 6:21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,
     
  17. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    1689 London Baptist Confession

    Chapter 19: Of the Law of God

    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
    ( Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:10, 12 )

    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
    ( Romans 2:14, 15; Deuteronomy 10:4 )

    3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.
    ( Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 2:14, 16, 17; Ephesians 2:14, 16 )

    4. To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of moral use.
    ( 1 Corinthians 9:8-10 )

    5. The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
    ( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )

    6. Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.
    ( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )

    7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it, the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.
    ( Galatians 3:21; Ezekiel 36:27 )
     
  18. SuperBaptist

    SuperBaptist New Member

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    It's interesting you mention these despots. The fact is we have sold the weapons to all of them they use to commit their attrocities.

    I have lived in foreign countries much of my life, and have taken a severe tonguelashing from more than a few. We are hated for our bad and envied for our fortunes. But we are definitely no longer the moral barometer for the world.

    Our standard of living, our freedom and our example of love, stand far behind a long list of other countries. America, Love it or Change it!
     
  19. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Back this up. Give me a long list of countries that we lag behind in the following areas:

    </font>
    • Living standard</font>
    • Freedom</font>
    • "Example of love" (whatever that is)</font>
     
  20. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Brother James quotes the

    1689 London Baptist Confession

    but completely fails to demonstrate that it implies that the United States is subject to its civil precepts, which any laws concerning the use of military force would necessarily fall under.

    According to the LBC, the "moral law" which remains binding is the Ten Commandments (19.2). The remainder is either the ceremonial law (abrogated by Christ, 19.3) or civil law (expired with the dissolution of the nation of Israel, 19.4).
     
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