The Wicked Husbandmen

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Primitive Baptist, Aug 6, 2003.

  1. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    Do Futurists acknowledge atleast "a" coming of the Lord in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem?

    Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
    Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
    Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
    Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
    Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
    Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
    Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].
    Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
    Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
    Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
    Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
    Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
     
  2. Frogman

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    Dear Brother,
    I would say this was accomplished at the moment the veil of the Temple was rent.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  3. Primitive Baptist

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    The Jews were not destroyed when the veil of the temple was rent in twain. They continued to persecute the church of God for nearly forty years after that.
     
  4. HankD

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    In my opinion, Judaism officially ended (at least temporally) in 70AD when Titus sacked Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple and killed the aristocratic priesthood and temple leadership.

    Even if one could keep the Law and the 613 mitzvoth, it then became doubly impossible without an identifiable levitical priesthood and the Temple in which to do ritual.

    Even if the Temple were rebuilt and the priesthood reactivated (somehow), at this point a Red Heiffer or the ancient ashes of the original must be found to cleanse all things judaic.

    Yesterday Jews all over the world mourned the destruction of the Temple.

    HankD
     
  5. Frogman

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    Arutz 7, a Jewish News Magazine reported in March of 2000 that efforts were under way to breed a red heifer. At the time of the announcement there was a heifer being inspected;

    I believe Judaism died when the veil of the Temple rent in two.

    Yes, the Temple and ceremonial priesthood endured for 40 more years, but the Jewish religion died IMHO at the point of the veil being rent.

    The Jews never have been destroyed as a people.

    Just what I believe.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  6. HankD

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    Dear brother Eaton,

    Just a reminder that the Gospel was offered to Israel first (after the veil was rent)...

    Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
    47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

    So, judaism was still in transition (in my view).

    The veil was rent to open the free access to ALL of the Holy Place because the blood of Christ had been shed.

    I believe that Israel and the Lord have unfinished business.

    Acts 1:
    6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
    7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    He did not deny that the Kingdom would be restored to Israel, He just wouldn't say when.

    How much of Judaism (for the Jews) if any, will be restored with the Second Coming? I don't know.
    For now it's impossible to keep the Law as it stands without the Temple or the priesthood.

    HankD
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    Here is part of an article by Don Preston on the red Heifer:

    A Look at the Ceremony
    Numbers 19 describes the important ceremony of the red heifer. A red heifer without flaw and that had never worn a yoke was to be taken outside the camp and slain. As the entire body was burnt, cedar wood, hyssop, and scarlet were to be added to the fire. When the carcass was consumed the ashes were gathered. For the purification ceremony, pure water was added to some of the ashes of the heifer sacrifice. The resulting paste was applied to anyone coming into contact with a dead body. There are several distinctive features of the red heifer ceremony. It is the only sacrifice in Israel's system that was offered outside the confines of the city.1 In addition, it is interesting that the one who offered the sacrifice became unclean and the one to whom it was applied became clean.

    This is the only sacrifice in which the animal's blood was burned; and the only offering in which the burning was the preliminary act.2 In all other sacrifices the burning was the crowning act of sacrifice or was the final act after the blood was offered. Finally, the ashes of the red heifer were for the cleansing of the defilement of death.3 What is so important about the red heifer sacrifice is that Jesus has fulfilled its prophetic significance.

    Jesus and the Red Heifer Sacrifice
    Jesus' passion fulfills the typological [prophetic] elements of the red heifer sacrifice. The heifer was to be slain outside the city; Jesus was slain "outside the gate," (Hebrews 13:12). Historically the heifer was taken to the Mount of Olives and slain.4 Jesus' passion prayer occurred in Gethsemane on the Mount of Olives, (Matthew 26:30). The entire heifer was to be consumed. Jesus gave himself completely in sacrifice. The ashes of the heifer were to be collected by one that was clean and stored in a clean place. Joseph of Arimathea, a devout man, collected Jesus' body and placed it in a new tomb, one that had never been defiled, (John 19:41.) The heifer's ashes were to be stored outside the city; Jesus' body was laid in the tomb outside the city.

    During the sacrifice of the heifer, hyssop, cedar and scarlet was to be added. While on trial Jesus had a scarlet robe placed on him, (Matthew 27:28). As he hung on the cross he asked for a drink. The soldiers dipped hyssop in vinegar and gave it to him,5 (John 19:29). The red heifer ashes were applied to the defiled person in two stages, on the third day and on the seventh, (Numbers 19:12). There was an "already-but-not-yet" process of cleansing from the defilement of death. Likewise, the New Testament affirms that Jesus destroyed death by his death, (2 Timothy 1:9-10), but would destroy death at his parousia, (1 Corinthians 15:24-58). This was the "already-but-not-yet" of resurrection. Jesus' sacrifice fulfills the prophetic significance of the red heifer sacrifice.

    Deliverence From Death
    The writer of Hebrews states the purpose of Jesus' sacrifice "through death, he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the Devil," (Hebrews 2:14). Is this an implicit referent to the red heifer sacrifice? This sacrifice, more than any other, was devoted to the deliverance from the defilement of death.

    In Hebrews 9:13-14 it says: "For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit, offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Because of the meaning of the red heifer sacrifice-deliverance from the defilement of death — Hebrews 9:13-14 must be seen as a "resurrection text" setting forth the reality of resurrection life in Jesus. He provides cleansing of the conscience and deliverance "from dead works."

    Deliverence from Dead Works
    Deliverance from "dead works" means deliverance from "works or conduct that leads to death instead of life."7 For the Jew this included deliverance from the Old Covenant System because, though glorious, it was a "ministration of death," (2 Corinthians 3:6); it could not give life, (Galatians 3:20-21). For the Gentile, deliverance meant freedom from that which had "killed"; "And you he made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins" said Paul to the Gentile Ephesians of their conversion to Christ. In Christ is to be found "the eternal inheritance" (Hebrews 9:15). To put it succinctly "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life," (Romans 6:23).

    Resurrection Implications
    The red heifer was for the deliverance from death; Jesus' sacrifice is for the deliverance from death. Jesus' sacrifice is effective spiritually; something the red heifer ceremony could only anticipate. Because Jesus died to deliver us from death, (Hebrews 2:14), and because his sacrifice is effective this means we are currently delivered from death.

    Hebrews draws on the imagery of the Old Covenant sacrifices: "Let us draw near to God with a true heart, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water," (Hebrews 10:22). The Old Covenant sacrifices were applied by the sprinkling of the blood and washing of the body; yet they could never cleanse the conscience nor deliver from death, (Hebrews 9:9; 10:1-4).

    The blood of Jesus however is applied to our hearts at the time when our bodies are "washed with pure water." This is an unmistakable reference to baptism. In Romans 6:3-4, the writer says that those baptized into Christ join with his death, burial and resurrection; they are raised to walk in newness of life. Resurrection life is for those who enter the power of his resurrection.

    The apostle affirms in Colossians 2:11-13 that in baptism the believer is "buried" with Christ and "raised up with him by faith in the operation of God." He also says that at this juncture "you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses." Here is deliverance from death by the power of the sacrifice of Jesus.

    A Modern Tragedy
    Both Jews and dispensational Christians are excited about the birth of the red heifer in Israel. While they have different perspectives both groups anticipate the reestablishment of the red heifer sacrifice. Both groups fail to see in Jesus the fulfillment and expiration of that sacrifice.

    God decreed that when the Old Testament was completely fulfilled it would pass away, (Matthew 5:17-18). If Christ has not completely fulfilled the prophetic aspect of the red heifer sacrifice the old law is still in effect. Thus, if death has not been completely purged the law is still in effect. If he has fulfilled the prophetic element of that offering the old law has passed — and death has been abolished.

    In Colossians 2:14-16 and Hebrews 10:1-4 the writer says the Old Covenant sacrifices were a "shadow of good things to come." Both passages also say that Jesus is the substance or reality to which those shadows pointed. Thus, the completion of Jesus' work would signal the termination of the Old Covenant and its sacrificial system. God never intended for animal sacrifices to be permanent: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire" Hebrews 10:5. The Lord always pointed Israel beyond those animal offerings to the ultimate sacrifice, Jesus. He is the perfect, one time for all time sacrifice for sin, Hebrews 10:1-12.

    As long as that old system--including the red heifer sacrifice--stood, man could [can!] have no access to God, (Hebrews 9:6-10). That old system would only stand until "the time of reformation," (Hebrews 9:10);8 but that system was "ready to vanish away" when Hebrews was written, (Hebrews 8:13).

    In the first century, some Jewish Christians were forsaking Christ to return to the observance of the Old Covenant law. The Hebrews writer said that to do so was to apostatize and "crucify Christ afresh," Hebrews 6:4-6. All attempts to reestablish the red heifer sacrifice are tantamount to a rejection of Christ's sacrifice. His sacrifice accomplishes deliverance from sin and death. Simply stated, if Christ's sacrifice delivers us from sin, it delivers us from death. Christ's sacrifice lacks nothing. Reestablishment of the red heifer sacrifice could add nothing to it.

    Christ's sacrifice is the reality anticipated by the "shadow" of the red heifer offering. Christ's sacrifice is better than the red heifer holocaust, 9 (Hebrews 9:13-14). A restoration of the red heifer sacrifice would be the reinstitution of an inferior system. The ashes of the red heifer "sanctified to the purifying of the flesh." Jesus' sacrifice cleanses the conscience.

    The cleansing of the red heifer sacrifice cleansed from the defilement of physical death. The sacrifice of Christ gives eternal life, (Hebrews 9:15). Jehovah never took pleasure in "burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin," (Hebrews 10:6-7). To seek the restoration of those sacrifices is to return to what He never desired. Christ's death and his parousia destroyed death and brought life to full reality. The shadows of the old system have given way to the reality.

    Jesus' sacrifice is superior to the red heifer sacrifice. Jesus is the fulfillment of the sacrificial system of Old Covenant Israel. Jesus is the cessation of the Old Covenant system. Let us not be guilty of rejecting the perfect, efficacious deliverance from death because of a zealous but misguided zeal over the birth of a red calf in Israel. The sacrifice of the red heifer — or a thousand like her — can never equal the sacrifice of Jesus.
     
  8. HankD

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    Very good Grasshopper.

    Personally I am not or would not be excited if a red heifer or the ashes of the original were found (from a "religious" point of view).

    But it has been discussed before on the BB concerning the form of worship during the millenium. I did not take part but only observed from a distance.

    Some took the point of view that the sacrifices would be reinstituted as a "memorial".

    This assumes that one is dispensational and millenial and that several prophecies of the OT point to the millenium and the "evening" sacrifice.

    Personally, I've decided to take a "wait and see" attitude.

    HankD
     
  9. Primitive Baptist

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    Frogman and HankD,

    The original question was, Do Futurists acknowledge at least "a" coming of the Lord in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem?
     
  10. HankD

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    Dear PB,

    While the verb "to come" might apply to the destruction of the Temple,personally, I make a distinction between the the Destruction of the Temple and the Last Day in which Jesus said He would raise us up.

    HankD
     
  11. amixedupmom

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    Here is a diffrent prespective on this passage. I beleive that Jesus in this parable was telling of his life. He was the slain son. God eventually will judge those who killed his son, I think that is what is in this passage. Not that it deems anyone over another. I think it's on a whole. Afterall the parable of the two men who built thier houses one on sand the other on rock, was not anything other than an example.. right?
     
  12. Tim

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    Is the "last day" the same day called the "day of Jesus Christ" in Phil. 1:6 & 10? Or is "the day of Jesus Christ" pointing toward His vindication at the destruction of the Temple?

    If we take the fururist view there, then how do we make it relevant to the Phillipian Christians to whom Paul wrote?

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  13. Primitive Baptist

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    Lea,

    While some parables can be applied practically to Christians today, the parable of the wicked husbandmen in Matthew 21:33-46 cannot. The parable is obviously referring to the Jews who killed the prophets and ultimately killed the Son of God. The chief priests and Pharisees even "perceived that he spake of them" (v. 45).

    Luk 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence [him] when they see him.
    Luk 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
    Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed [him]. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
    Luk 20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard [it], they said, God forbid.
    Luk 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
    Luk 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
     
  14. Gunther

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    That was hardly Christ's vindication. Sin is still rampant. People still flagrantly ignore and/or hate Christ. Christians are still being persecuted all over the world.

    You think the destruction of a few buildings and the killing of some people was Christ's vindication? [​IMG]

    Sorry, but when it says all the nations of the earth will mourn, I will go ahead and believe it in spite of the preterism nonsense.
     
  15. Gunther

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    I forgot to add that I do believe this parable was speaking to the generation that witnessed Christ walk the earth.

    That still has no bearing on me being a dispensationalist (simply because I am a Christian ;) ).
     
  16. Frogman

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    Would this mean in the sense of a visitation such as at Sodom and Gommorah?

    Otherwise, I don't think many accept such a 'coming' of Christ at this time. I am assuming that this would mean a Physical coming.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  17. Primitive Baptist

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    Gunther,

    The scriptures Tim posted, I believe, are referring to the personal coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, when He Himself "shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

    Frogman,

    Yes, a visitation (Luke 19:44). [​IMG]
     
  18. Grasshopper

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    You think the destruction of a few buildings and the killing of some people was Christ's vindication?

    Until you understand that what happened in 70AD was the end of the Old Covenant and the end of the "jewish world", you will never understand full or partial preterism.
     
  19. Tim

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    When the "few buildings" were assumed to be the residence of God Himself, and the "people" who were killed thought God would never forsake them because they were "His chosen people"-- then yes, it was a big deal.

    Christ had built another temple and chosen another people out of those Jewish roots. In the destruction of the vestiges of the Old Covenant, He confirmed the New (Heb. 12:22-29).

    Tim
     
  20. Gunther

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    Tim, God had left that temple back in Ezekiel's time. - ICHABOD - is the name associated with that event.

    Grasshopper, the Jewish age and Judaism ended when the veil was ripped down the middle. This attempt at putting the end of Judaism at AD 70 is ludicrous. The author of Hebrews had said the New Covenant had already been enacted.
     

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