The will of God

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, May 18, 2012.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    1Thess 4:3
    For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality:

    Does God always get His will?
     
    #1 freeatlast, May 18, 2012
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  2. DHK

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    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    It is God's will that all men should come to repentance and that none should perish.
    His will, will not be accomplished because of the depravity of man's heart and the given ability of man to choose to do evil.
     
  3. jbh28

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    Depends on how one uses the term "will." Words have multiple definitions. We know that God has decreed to allow man to disobey him. So here, we have what is called God's preceptive will. And "will" here in this usage is not always done.
     
  4. freeatlast

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    "God's preceptive will," Hmmm. Do you mean "perceptive will" And how is that different then just His will and is there some scripture that teaches this doctrine of "perceptive will?
     
  5. jbh28

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    No, I meant preceptive will. What you gave was a command that God has given...a precept.....And yes, the verse you just gave would be a very good one.
     
  6. righteousdude2

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    His WILL, will depend on your will....

    There is God's Perfect/Sovergn Will and there is God's permissive will. Where are you in this matter of "wills?"

    I believe your answer(s) are in one of these two articles. Enjoy. I am looking forward to your opinion of these commentaries! :smilewinkgrin:

    SEE:http://fruitoftheword.com/2009/03/god’s-sovereign-will-vs-permissive-will/

    http://www.comprehensivechristian.com/Decisions-Making-comprehensivechristian.asp
     
  7. freeatlast

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    Regardless how we label His will, permissive, preceptive, or something else it would have to be said He does not always get His will. Correct?
     
  8. HankD

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    Only in the time continuum is His will allowed to be violated.
    In eternity His will is perfectly fulfilled.

    HankD
     
  9. freeatlast

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    Sort of like His will can be violated but it will not be violated?
     
  10. HankD

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    No.

    HankD
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Everyone this verse speaks of does come to repentance....none are lost.:thumbsup: God's will is always accomplished on earth and heaven.
     
    #11 Iconoclast, May 19, 2012
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  12. Iconoclast

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    God's will is always done;
    Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
    1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
    ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
    2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

    3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
    ( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

    4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
    ( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    God ALWAYS gets done his determined Will, as he directly causes things that occur, but does NOT get what he would desireto happen in His permissive will, as He allows a degree of freedom in choices that others make...

    He ALWAYS though knoed beforehamnd what the choices/decisions others make will be, and has already predestined how to work that into His plans and purposes...

    we look for the time of jesus returning, as that will ahve his direct will being than done on earth as it is in heaven!

    He always gets done his will in reagrds to salvation though, as ALl he has elected to come to salvation in Christ shall!
     
  14. DHK

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    You have added to the word of God. It specifically says "not willing that any should perish." The verse is speaking of all people just as it indicates. Why are you deliberately changing the meaning? "Everyone this verse speaks of," is all. That is what it says. It does not refer to a privileged group of people.

    Go back to Adam and Eve. What was God's will. God gave them a command. It was God's will that they keep his command to obey him. He knew in his omniscience knew that they wouldn't, but that wasn't his will. He is not a cruel God, giving them a command they cannot keep, sitting up in the grand-stands cheering: "Go Adam" "Sin! Sin! Sin!" "Go Eve" "Sin! Sin! Sin" He was not there cheering them on to sin. It wasn't his will for them to sin. It wasn't his will to kick them out of the garden. He made the garden for them to live in eternally, to dress it, and keep it.

    Your picture of God is a cruel malicious God who cheers man on to sin, that he may carry out his so-called decrees. Just because he is omniscient does not mean he forces man to sin. They, out of their own free will and depraved nature, choose to rebel against the God that created them. No one forced them to do that.

    God's will is that all men be saved.
    God will not force men to be saved.
    Their own depraved rebellious heart will keep them from coming to Christ.
     
  15. freeatlast

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    Iconoclast how does the OP passage fit into your understanding since some believers have violated it?
     
  16. jbh28

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    His preceptive will is not always done. His decretive will is always done.
     
  17. freeatlast

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    But the bible never makes that kind of distinction.
     
  18. jbh28

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    Yes it does. Which part are you denying? God makes decrees(decretive will) or God has laws(preceptive will)?
     
  19. freeatlast

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    How is will different then will? Just because the area of the will differs how does that change the efficacy?
     
  20. HeirofSalvation

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    Exactly....DHK... except that I would not suggest that Adam had a "depraved" nature prior to the fall....:wavey:

    Yes it means exactly what it says ..."God was not "WILLING" that "ANY" should perish, but that "ALL" should come to repentance...

    Simply use the Word of God to explain itself, in I Peter it says:

    1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    we can go back to the longsuffering and waited which I bolded in a sec.

    The Same Apostle further clarifies in his second epistle directly refering to this one here:


    2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


    In vs. 5-7 The context is supplied...a direct reference to the flood...

    and he concludes with vs. 9: He is not willing to allow any to perish....

    So, why was Longsuffering and Waited bolded in these passages? Simple...re-read what occured during the flood. What we find is this:

    Gen 5:21 ¶ And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
    Gen 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
    Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.


    What is the signifigance of "Methuselah"? Enoch was a prophet of God, and a preacher of righteousness...and God took him...the naming of his son was in itself prophetic: Note:

    Gen 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

    Everyone knows Methuselah was the longest living man in the Bible...How does that refer to God's "longsuffering" and "waiting" (I bolded) in I Peter 3:20?

    Consider two things:
    1.) What "Methuselah" means (remember his daddy was a prophet)
    2.) What Year the Flood occured.

    As far as 1.)

    Methuselah’s name is made up of the Hebrew words Met, U, and Shelakh, which mean “he shall die,” “and,” and “it shall be sent.” Methuselah’s name was a prophesy in itself of judgment! Now, think about the implications of this. He was a living prophecy, and his death was like a final warning to his sinful generation – a warning to repent and be saved from the judgment, by boarding the ark.

    2.)
    Methuselah lived 187 years and had a son, Lamech. Lamech in turn had a son named Noah. Lamech was 182 years old when Noah was born. Which means that Methuselah was 369 years old when his grandson Noah was born. Noah was 600 years old when God flooded the world. Add 600 to 369, and you get 969 years. Methuselah, then, died the year of the flood. And, judging by the meaning of his name, he probably did not perish in the flood, but rather died shortly before it.

    Now, think about the implications of this. He was a living prophecy, and his death was like a final warning to his sinful generation – a warning to repent and be saved from the judgment, by boarding the ark. The fact that his life was the longest on record (as far as we know) should also suggest God’s mercy – a few more years, a few more chances to repent. For as long as Methuselah lived, the judgment would be held back.

    THAT....Icon...is how one reads, interprets and properly exegetes the Scriptures....You may copy and paste your "Catechisms" and the decrees of your determinist over-lords all you want...but that is the BIBLE, clearly and succinctly telling us what it means to say...It has said exactly what it meant and it meant exactly what it said...God waited...God is longsuffering...because he wills that NONE should perish, but that ALL should come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Check....Your move....
     
    #20 HeirofSalvation, May 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2012

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