The Word of God is not Bound

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, May 2, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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    Anyone believing man must enter into any sort of works arrangement whereby the elect 'may' be saved. Expound for me upon John ch. 4; showing why that the Son of God sent his preachers away and followed the premise laid out in John 10 (my sheep hear my voice and they follow me).

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  2. Eladar

    Eladar
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  3. Frogman

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    Yeah, I agree, yet the question is upon the need of man to enter into works of any kind in order that men may be saved; expounded from within John Ch. 4. If you want to bring in other scripture that is fine; but at least comment on how that Jesus specifically passed through Samaria etc.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  4. Eladar

    Eladar
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    Here is one action Jesus requires. One must drink the water that Jesus is offering us. If one refuses to drink, then one will not receive salvation.
     
  5. KenH

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    That is not the issue. The issue is why does one person drink and another person not drink? Is it one person being better than another person, thus God showing partiality to one person over another based on that person's performance?

    I reject that idea. I believe God saves us completely by His own work. Salvation is 100% of God and 0% of man. Thus all of our doing is really God's work and not our own.
     
  6. Eladar

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    The only thing in the Bible that I can see that is based on performance would be rewards that we receive in heaven. Other than that, being saved is sort of like being pregnant. Either you are or you aren't.

    I don't believe that any Arminian would argue that we are saved by works. It is the Calvinist twisting of what an Arminian would say that causes this herecy. In other words, this is a straw man that Calvinists like to knock down from time to time.
     
  7. Frogman

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    So, if you don't believe you are pregnant, then you aren't? Right.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  8. KenH

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    I take it that you have never studied the doctrine of the Church of Christ denomination.
     
  9. Eladar

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    As a matter of fact, I am a graduate of Abilene Christian University.

    I can assure you that that CoC members do not believe that theirs is a doctrine of salvation by good works. I'm not saying that people like yourself would not describe it as such. I am just saying that people who attend Churches of Christ would not.

    By the way, they couldn't refer to themselves as a "denomination" either. ;)
     
  10. KenH

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    I was born and reared in the Church of Christ denomination. I graduated from Harding University in 1978 and I spent about a decade until 1999 teaching adult Bible classes. I left the Church of Christ denomination in 1999 when I was 43 years old after I became a Calvinist and felt I could no longer teach traditional Church of Christ doctrine. I know they don't consider they are teaching salvation by works and baptismal regeneration, but simply denying it doesn't mean they are not doing so.
     
  11. Eladar

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    Just because you see it as such, that doesn't mean it is so either.

    If you want to see a group that truely believes in salvation by works, look to the Catholics. For a quasi-Christian example look at the Mormons. CoC does not believe that anything we do makes us worthy. All we can do is accept Jesus' sacrifice and follow God's command by being "baptized for the forgiveness of sins". Since that quote is from the Bible, I don't find anything wrong with it.
     
  12. KenH

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    Actually, there are a lot of similarities in the underlying doctrinal ideas on soteriology between the Church of Christ denomination and the Roman Catholic Church. A man named Joe Ross has written some excellent discussions about the false teaching of the Church of Christ denomination from which God delivered me.
     
  13. Eladar

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    I disagree with your inference that all those who are members of the Church of Christ are doomed to hell. I think you will find alot of differences between individual members. Perhaps you were brought up in the traditional "everyone else is going to hell" view of CoC. That would go a long way to explain your 180 degree turning of the tables.

    As far a similarities between the groups, people on the outside often find similarities between opposing groups.

    The difference that I was trying to point out is that Church of Christ believes that we will always fall short and can only have our sins washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that by following God's commands and through his grace we can become perfect enough to enter his presence.

    There is a huge difference between the two views. But I don't expect you to see it though the anger you must feel toward CoC. I can only imagine the family blood shed that occured when you left the Church. (As many of relatives and former brothers would say)
     
  14. KenH

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    1) I have not said that Church of Christ members are doomed to hell.

    2) My leaving was not an issue. Both of my parents were already dead and my brother and sister both live a full day's drive from me. So only a few people at the congregation became miffed at me. [​IMG]

    And yes I was raised up among very conservative Church of Christ teaching that all non-Church of Christ members were lost.
     
  15. Eladar

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    1) I guess I misunderstood the term "delivered me from".

    2) Glad to hear that the divide did minimal damage.
     
  16. Frogman

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    The Word of God has yet to be bound by man such that he cannot perform his will at his appointed time.

    Bro. Dallas
     

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