Their worm

Still looking for your Bible proof for your will-worms.

 

are we speaking physical death or spiritual death.
and at this judgement?.

didnt Jesus take ALL SIN into death. so as your own judgement occurs. When Jesus stepped up for you, wouldnt you think he would step up for all?.

Now when one "dies" they have no hope..
isnt that the good news that now man has living hope for the power of death has been destroyed?

unless man is afraid of becoming transformed in the lake of fire?

are not christians in the refiners fire today?

and finally what do we do with this verse:

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

we didnt ask to be placed in adam in vanity, in bondage, in death.
but by God himself. for what reason?

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].


what we as christians concentrate on is our own selfish lives. what changes we must undergo to be accepted by God. Yet as we Grow and understand. we see a larger version of this plan of God we are in.

All men are like us. Alike and just as worthy.

or shall we say, seen of the creator as precious children. all of man. not as man views and judges himself, but as God sees man. in the "image" designed before the foundation of the world.

that is the good news and hope. we as christians are carriers of this message. death has been overcom and man has rightful passage into the "image" of Christ.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


unfortunately, the message has been hijacked to some version of eternal punishment instead of infinite forgiveness. Might I suggest if one doesnt have proof that these frightful occurances will defintely occur. that God is still offering mercy to all?

all the way up to the second of being judged.
but then isnt that when jesus steps in?

Me2

 

Caretaker,

I most certainly believe Jesus lived in the history of Mankind.

take it up a notch..

the question should be..Is Jesus in YOUR Flesh?

I cant prove to others that Jesus lived and died in my past based on "eye-witnesses", But I can verify that God himself has entered my own body and has gave me a new righteous spirit. namely the "Lord Jesus Christ".

Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

one can say blindly that jesus came in mankinds past. but this is not the statement desired. or not the proper order of verification. it is wisdom without understanding. faith without works.

if one were to have this spirit "within" them. they would have the "proof" necessary that at some time in the past history that a man died for Gods creation. that the creator accepted and took this righteous spirit and distributed it to all to whom he chooses. thus opening the channels of communication and relationship. a relationship with man and his living God.

do you agree?

Me2

 

Me2 you have not answered my question. Do you believe that God was manifest in the flesh, and His name was Jesus of Nazareth?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


. The True God

We believe in one living and true God who is the Creator of heaven and earth;
who is eternal, almighty, unchangeable, infinitely powerful, wise, just and
holy.

We believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the
Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and
co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of
precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience. Matthew 3:16, 17;
Matthew 28:19, 20; Mark 12:29; John 1:14; Acts 5:3, 4; II Corinthians 13:14.

C. God the Father

We believe in God the Father, Creator and Sustainer of all things, perfect in
holiness, wisdom, power and love. We believe that He concerns Himself
mercifully in the affairs of men; that He hears and answers prayer; that He
sent His Son into the world; that He saves from sin and death all who come
to Him through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Genesis 1:1; Psalms 7:9;
Matthew 5:48; John 3:16; Acts 13:17-25; Acts 14:15-17; Acts 17:24-28.

D. The Person and Work of Jesus Christ

We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, that He was conceived of the Holy
Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, and is fully God and fully
Man. We believe that our redemption has been accomplished solely by the
blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was made to be sin, and made a curse for
us, dying in our place that we might be forgiven. We believe that He died not
only for our sins, but also for the sins of the entire world. We believe that He
was raised from the dead in bodily form and that He ascended into heaven,
where He sits at the right hand of God the Father interceding for us.

We believe in the personal, bodily, imminent and pre-millennial return of our
Lord Jesus Christ for His Church and His subsequent millennial reign over
restored Israel and the kingdoms of the world. Luke 1:30-35; 2:7; John 1:1-4;
Romans 9-11; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:13-19; Hebrews 1:1-3; I Peter
3:18; I Corinthians 15:3-7; Hebrews 7:25; Acts 1:11, 15:14-17; I
Thessalonians 4:13-18; I John 2:2.

E. The Holy Spirit

We believe that the Holy Spirit is not merely an influence, but a divine Person;
that He is the source and power of all acceptable worship and service and is
our abiding Counselor and Helper. We believe that the baptism of the Holy
Spirit occurs at the moment of conversion and is that act whereby believers
are united with Christ as part of His body; that the Holy Spirit permanently
indwells all believers in Christ; that He will never depart from the Church nor
from the weakest believer; that by His indwelling the believer is enabled to
live a godly life. John 14:16,17; 16:13-15; Acts 1:8; 5:3,4; Romans 8:9; I
Corinthians 6:19; 12:13; Galatians 5:22,23.


A servant of Christ,
Drew

 

Intresting,

I looked at the worm on the street, I picked itup and lie it on my hand. I watched it moved on my hand, funny, it was actually bite my hand, then I let it drop on the street. I surprise that the worm CAN bite anything include human!

In my mind, Jesus tells us, the worms shall never die, and the fire shall never stop, when unbeliever is in the fire, I believe thousands or millions of worms will swim into believer's body and bite anywhere over believer's body, and also, I beleve it make unbeliever feel so diguist or misery and uncomfortable while worms bother them evermore. I believe it is terrible for all unbelievers down there!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Caretaker,

i was with ya all the way up to the pre-millenial return.. Im an Amillennialist..oops.

guess Ill have to wait on that one.

everything else that was posted was OK with me.
especially Jesus being the Son of God.


although I would still like verbal proof from any believer stating the spirit is "within" their flesh.

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory:

keeping in mind that this is an adult concept. in 1 john, we hear John reminding new believers that christ came into our flesh. new believers can acknowledge that christ has been resurrected. (whatever that means. he's up there.) they live by faith of the HS until they are tried. so the concept of Christ being in them is foreign. they have the lords supper and baptism as symbols to "remind" them of the resurrection doctrine yet until they accept this by faith and are tried concerning Jesus is lord and that he has conquered death. the concept of Gods spirit within them is foreign also.. no evidence
these are strongly admonished to hold on to faith of the teaching concerning the resurrection of Jesus spirit and our resurrection also of the Holy Spirit.yet they havent received the evidence via their own senses. their spiritual senses.

that were we can interject the idea of "worm" again.

children dont "realize" they have a spiritual body.
no eyes,ears,mouth,feet,legs,arms or hands.

(now we can clearly see ourselves as a "worm"..HeHe)

remind yourself of body parts mentioned..
how bout in revelations..
for those who have "ears" to hear.

these realize they have a resurrected body housing their spirit.these are young men and not children.

as we grow. that "worm" keeps wiggling until we accept these facts. that when we received and acknowledged that the spirit of Christ was within our very flesh. that we were actually resurrected from the dead with Our Lord.

Me2

 

We never see what hell looks like, alo, we have no idea what the lake of fire looks like.

Why does Jesus says, 'worm never die' of Mark 9:44,46, & 48. Why does He says, 'worm'?

Also, I hear that the biologians or doctors saying that all humans have worm inside.

In Acts 12:21-23 When the king was boast became ego acts like he is God, then the angel of God smote King with worms led king to death. I have no idea what 'eaten of worms' looks like. But, I believe 'worms' of Acts 12:23 were literal.

What do you think of Acts 12:23?

I think, worms probably can swim through the lake of fire, or crawling throuh the brimstone or rocks(in the hell) to across person's body.

I am no doubt that Mark 9:44,46, & 48 sound so awful terrible and diguist things will hapen to all unbelievers. Thank God, that we do not have go to hell then later cast ino the lake of fire, because are saved through Jesus Christ! Amen.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Weird idea there....

I checked my Grk.lexicon and found out that the word worm means...Hold on to your hats guys....A worm or maggot

 

Very interesting posts, Me2. I had not considered that before.

Yes, our old self must perish in destruction, either in this age or the age to come, and the new man in Christ Jesus come forth unto life.

And you are absolutely, 100% correct, God always wins - whether the theologians understand the blessed hope of the gospel of Jesus Christ or not.

Praise be unto God for salvation through the finished work of Christ Jesus. \o/

 

There everywhere!,..There everywhere.!
Everyone is “worms”


Psa 22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm? and the son of man, [which is] a worm?
Joh 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

Jesus favorite term he used of himself is “THE son of man”. he identified himself as a "worm"
.
Or…

God identifies carnal man with the devil…our “father”

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Joh 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Psa 22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Good worm hunting!


Me2

 

Try imagining the “worm” that died and gave the israelites their red colored dye called “scarlet”.

The Hebrew word for worm is tola, particularly the grub worm. They attach themselves to tree limbs to lay their eggs. After the female lays her eggs and being strongly attached to the tree limb. They cannot unfasten themselves from the limb.. They die. Secreting a red dye into their body.. the dye is then squeezed out of the dead worm.

This worm's secretion was used to make the scarlet dye of the Tabernacle's veil, door hangings, curtains and coverings. (Ex.25:4; 26:1,31,36; 27:16)

Scarlet is another reference to this worm…

Doesn’t it bring to mind:

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them (death).
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

speaking of the "dead works" of the "worms".

We all “hung” on the tree (symbolically). In the form of a dying “worm”.

As “Another” comes along and takes all cursed mans place..in a form of the same dying “worm”.

difference is that his "works" are accepted

Another instance of the cross…


After being beaten, battered and bruised beyond recognition.
While hanging on the cross…,

Jesus said. “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mat 27:46, Mar 15:34)

try turning to psalm 22

Psa 22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psa 22:3 But thou [art] holy, [O thou] that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psa 22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head,

This is the Son of God..referencing himself as a “worm”… mans sin bearer and substitute in death.

The Only Righteous “worm” that dies for all other cursed worms on the tree.

So Could jesus be your “eternal worm” that never dies.?

Wait a sec..

The scripture references to their “worm”.

. Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Could this still be the “eternal worm” that jesus is referring to himself becoming?.

Inside them?

Could these people actually be believers with this “eternal worm” “within” them?.

If Their worm cant die..….makes some sense…

Could this be a reference to them being saved and they are living unto God by following the law instead of by faith in christ?..being in outer darkness towards their relationship with God?

hhmmm were back to mans will against Gods will…ie, law against grace.

Why? Because there aint no literal “worms”in a spiritual realm.

Its all figurative language pointing to others meanings….

It is expressing “entities” in a spiritual world…the one your in right now!

Me2

 

The word to describe "hell" here is "geenna" or Gehenna, a place in the valley of Hinnom where we are told criminals were put to death and then burned (presumably where the body of Christ would have been taken by the Romans had Nicodemus and Joseph not begged it from Pilate). A further punishment, a death which was not followed by a proper burial.

A place where dead animals were also disposed.

It was a place of disgust and loathing where maggots infested the fresh and unburnt corpses, no doubt a stench arose from the place.

Jesus used Gehenna figuratively as a warning to all (humanly speaking) that the reality behind Gehenna (the lake of fire) is to be avoided what ever the cost (and we all know what it cost Him).

We can argue about the role of the human will in salvation but the message is clear:

"...And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (gehenna)".

"...it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched"

HankD

 

The verses do not claim an "eternal" worm; it claims a worm that doesn't die. The only worm that doesn't die and eats man's flesh... is a maggot. Maggots don't die, they turn into flies, and they are "undying".

The origination of this comes from a battle field scene in which human bodies have been killed by the sword of the Lord. Too much has been made of the worm and a whole doctrine of eternal punishment has arisen due to an obvious oversight by early scholars that didn't understand that maggots evolve into flies, thus they don't die.

The Fire and the worm are simply descriptions of the death/destruction of the human soul. Reading many other verses in reference to fire, you will find it is associated with the physical destruction of the body and/or spirit (mainly the body) of a man.

I believe that early man was fascinated with the maggot in that was the only life form they could not find as a life form that didn't die, thus it was put into a spiritual realm along with the aspects of fires that don't seem to burn out under certain circumstances. These then become symbols to build other spiritual examples from.

I have only been able to conclude that the "eternal" aspect used in these verses refer to the eternal process of the death of man's body, soul, and or spirit. It is not an eternal punishment, but rather the eternal destruction of the spirit. There is only one eternal punishment I have found in scripture and it is reserved for the beast, and Satan in the lake of fire. The other "eternal" death interpretation can be that "man will always be a creature that dies" as opposed to Adam and Eve whom could have lived forever (but I won't go there in this topic).

Scholars have placed the property of eternal punishment onto the lake of fire, when that is not a property of the fire, rather a property of the beings of the Beast and Satan. The two cannot be destroyed and are placed in the lake of fire for punishment. Whereas man's spirit is constantly being referred to as being destroyed / perish, that of not being eternal in the rest of scripture. Thus when men are placed in the lake of fire, it is for a final destruction of the spirit. This must be so for John 3:16 and many other verse then make sense. Otherwise, the Bible would be in contradiction with itself if there is eternal punishment for man.

Summary: the worm and fire speaks only to the physical death of man, and has nothing to do with his spiritual nature which Rev. tells us will be brought back to "life" for the final judgement. The bible's silence about the spirit of man during this "dead" time is deafing.