Theological Errors of R.B. Thieme

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Aug 15, 2001.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    We will start with just one area: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>R. B. Thieme constantly minimizes and ridicules the blood of Christ. He tells his followers not to sing songs about it and declares we are not saved by the blood of Christ but by the death of Christ. Such statements are born in Hell and hatched in the mind of Satan himself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>(full article by Dr. Bob Jones at http://www.bju.edu/faith/vol2num5/false.html

    Some resources:
    **** Doctoral dissertation - "Bob Thieme's Teachings On Christian Living" by Dr. Joe Wall, 196 pages. Included are quotes/comments from: Dr. John F. Walvoord (previous President of Dallas Theological Seminary), Dr. John G. Mitchell (Multnomah School of the Bible), and more...

    **** Doctrinal critique - "What's wrong with the teaching of R. B. Thieme, Jr.?" by Dr. Stewart Custer 25 page booklet. Bob Jones University, Greenville, SC 29614.

    **** Doctrinal critique - "The False Teachings Of Pastor R. B. Thieme, Jr." by Rev Robert G. Walter. 103 pages. Copyright 1972 The book is edited by Dr. D. A. Waite ( Dr. Waite graduated with high honors, as valedictorian, from the Dallas Theological Seminary, with a major in New Testament Greek Literature and Exegesis, in 1952 ). Included in the book are letters and/or comments from: Dr. Spiros Zodhiates (President of the American Mission to Greeks), Dr. Stewart Custer (Chairman, Bible Dept., Bob Jones University), Dr. John F. Walvoord (previous President of Dallas Theological Seminary), Dr. Kenneth Wuest (professor of Greek at Moody Bible Institute), Charles C. Ryrie (Dean Of Doctoral Studies ), Dr. Charles Woodbridge (Christian Admiral), Dr. Philip R. Williams (Assistant Professor of New Testament Literature and Exegesis), Dr. Oliver B. Greene (Director of The Gospel Hour), Ron Hood (Southland Bible Institute), Rev. Stewart Lease (Lancaster School of the Bible), and Pastor George H Mundell. Quotes from A. W. Pink's (Bible expositor) exposition on 1 John 1:9. Go to http://www.biblefortoday.org/search.asp then sub title product title and search for Thieme. Book can be ordered by credit card.

    **** Article from the Discerner (Interdenominational Heresy-Exposing Quarterly) - "ABERRATIONS EVANGELICAL FACE 1. The Teaching of R. B. Thieme" by Dr. David Larsen 4 page article. copyright 1975 by Religion Analysis Service, Inc. Jan. - Mar. 1975 Issue Vol. VIII No. 5. Item can be ordered by calling R.A.S. at (763)535-8715.

    **** The Houston Chronicle wrote a somewhat lengthy review article on Chapter 14 of the book - UNDER GOD: RELIGION AND AMERICAN POLITICS by Gary Wills ISBN 0-671-65705-4 COPYRIGHT 1990. Go to http://www.chron.com/content/archive/index.mpl grab a 1 day qpass for $4.95 then search for Thieme "religion, politics in perspective" article, under Houston post search.

    **** "Appraisal of Doctrines & Ministry Of R. B. Thieme, Jr." by Rev. H. Duncan 7 page pamphlet.Go to www.biblefortoday.org then sub title product listings and search for Thieme. Item can be ordered by credit card.

    **** "...R.B. Thieme has been described as "a cult figure" by James Dunn, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs in Washington. Controversial through he may be even among fundamentalists, ..." http://www.tarpley.net/bush22.htm

    **** Dr. Enroth - "I know of groups that nobody's heard of that have the potential for violence," he said. "Who heard of Jim Jones before Jonestown? Who heard of Koresh before Waco? There are lots of groups out there who have never been written up who have the potential to become violent."

    I would ask that folks look up some of these before jumping in with opinion. Always good to have solid evidence to show the pernicious lies of this "minister".
     
  2. Raulf7

    Raulf7
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    I have listened to over 200 tapes of Thiemes and I have not heard him say these things you claim.

    He teaches Faith Alone in Christ Alone (same as Baptist's) and the Deity of Christ and the Trinity

    I see nothing in his Soteriology nor Christology that is cult like. He teaches the same Soteriology and Christology as most Baptists and I have met many USA and English Pastors (online) that commend his work.

    I know Thieme takes shots at Baptists (over legalism and judgementalism) and I think therein lies the problem

    Thieme says anyone who places faith alone in Christ alone is saved

    Thats not cult

    Thieme says Jesus is God incarnate

    Thats not cult

    Thieme says God is a Trinity

    Thats not cult

    Thieme says to confess sins

    Thats not cult

    Thieme says to study the Bible daily

    Thats not cult

    Thieme says we should love one another

    Thats not cult

    Thieme teaches to do good things for others and love all Christian brethren (of all Demoninations)

    Thats not cult

    Thieme teaches Eternal Security

    Thats not cult

    Thieme teaches the rapture

    Thats not cult

    So far you havent convinced me he runs a cult

    [ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Raulf7 ]
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    From the website of Errors of R.B. Thieme come the following (all quotations are from tapes of Thieme): <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is absolutely nothing wrong with abortion. "Life in the womb is just reflexmotility"

    If you are not attending Berachah, it's possible that you are getting decent doctrine, but it's not likely.

    If you don't agree totally with Thieme's doctrines, you are a loser and you are inferior - "poor sap"

    If you show emotion, especially concerning God, you are weak and "you will fail when the chip are down" (this usually referred to the inevitable invasion of the communists).

    "Reading the Bible by yourself, is a waste of time, you can not possibly understand what it means"

    If you only attend Berachah on Sundays you are a "holy roller and a loser"

    Col. Thieme knows more about the Bible then "anyone who has lived in the past 2000 years" due to a superior knowledge of the Scriptures. Can you believe that he actually says this about himself? I've heard it with my own two ears. I actually recently read an article in the Houston Post written by a true Greek scholar who wrote that "Thieme made several grammatical errors" during multiple sermons. This gentleman was very unimpressed with Thieme's ability to translate the original languages. I have heard the same from other scholars. For me, this was shocking, but it does make sense.

    If you sin, get hurt, fail, don't feel it, "just rebound and pull yourself up by your bootstraps"

    If you disagree with the Col. you are certainly in "carnality" or "reversionism" and had better change your thinking or you might "be skinned alive with a whip." This is important, because there was an unwritten rule that you never discussed your feelings about Bob's teachings for fear that you might say something wrong and appear to be in "reversionism."

    If you go to church six times a week and keep taking in that daily feeding of doctrine, God may take pity on me and bless you with +H (perfect happiness) but don't hold your breath because "most of you will never make it." I'll never forget the time one of my song leaders in prep school announced that she was a super grace believer and she was going to receive the crown of glory when she died - even then I new something was amiss

    If you don't believe and practice what Col. Thieme teaches or sin too much you will "die a miserable death" - maybe even the "Sin Unto Death"

    Colonel Thieme and Berachah Church are the only hope for our nation. Destruction is eminent! In fact, if it weren't for Berachah and the "pivot" this country would most certainly already be destroyed by the communists.

    I go to Berachah Church - I AM BETTER THAN YOU. This one is a tough one to swallow, but if you really look hard, you might have to admit you've thought this at one time.

    "There's only one right man or woman for everyone, and if you don't marry him or her then your marriage will fail."

    If I screw up, God might strike me down with "triple compound discipline" at any given moment.

    Emotions are evil and are very dangerous.

    "You should only listen to the teachings of your right pastor (Col. Thieme) and no one else".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.geocities.com/readjohn832/Axioms.html
     
  4. Raulf7

    Raulf7
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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with abortion. "Life in the womb is just reflexmotility"

    If he said that I disagree with him


    If you are not attending Berachah, it's possible that you are getting decent doctrine, but it's not likely.

    I am 12,000 miles away

    If you don't agree totally with Thieme's doctrines, you are a loser and you are inferior - "poor sap"

    No one is perfect doctrinally speaking, to say they are arrogant

    If you show emotion, especially concerning God, you are weak and "you will fail when the chip are down" (this usually referred to the inevitable invasion of the communists).

    Grace is not extended because of our emotions, its extended because of the cross and our faith


    "Reading the Bible by yourself, is a waste of time, you can not possibly understand what it means"

    That may be true for some people. ESpecially trying to understand the KJV


    If you only attend Berachah on Sundays you are a "holy roller and a loser"

    He encourages people to study and not just be a Sunday Christian. I can see where you were trying to go with this

    Col. Thieme knows more about the Bible then "anyone who has lived in the past 2000 years" due to a superior knowledge of the Scriptures. Can you believe that he actually says this about himself? I've heard it with my own two ears. I actually recently read an article in the Houston Post written by a true Greek scholar who wrote that "Thieme made several grammatical errors" during multiple sermons. This gentleman was very unimpressed with Thieme's ability to translate the original languages. I have heard the same from other scholars. For me, this was shocking, but it does make sense.

    I would like to see the actual source of this to verify it

    If you sin, get hurt, fail, don't feel it, "just rebound and pull yourself up by your bootstraps"

    I agree. God is never surprised, ask forgiveness and get on with life, and repent

    If you disagree with the Col. you are certainly in "carnality" or "reversionism" and had better change your thinking or you might "be skinned alive with a whip." This is important, because there was an unwritten rule that you never discussed your feelings about Bob's teachings for fear that you might say something wrong and appear to be in "reversionism."

    Who doesnt like being disagreed with? No one

    If you go to church six times a week and keep taking in that daily feeding of doctrine, God may take pity on me and bless you with +H (perfect happiness) but don't hold your breath because "most of you will never make it." I'll never forget the time one of my song leaders in prep school announced that she was a super grace believer and she was going to receive the crown of glory when she died - even then I new something was amiss

    Many people never study Gods Word and never get to know Gods mind


    If you don't believe and practice what Col. Thieme teaches or sin too much you will "die a miserable death" - maybe even the "Sin Unto Death"

    And what happens if you dont believe and practice what Baptist teach? Would they not make the same claim?

    Colonel Thieme and Berachah Church are the only hope for our nation. Destruction is eminent! In fact, if it weren't for Berachah and the "pivot" this country would most certainly already be destroyed by the communists.

    Thats somewhat arrogant on his part if thats what he said

    I go to Berachah Church - I AM BETTER THAN YOU. This one is a tough one to swallow, but if you really look hard, you might have to admit you've thought this at one time.


    No one has a franchise of salvation

    "There's only one right man or woman for everyone, and if you don't marry him or her then your marriage will fail."

    I agree, marrying the wrong person can be a disaster. Christian marriages have a 50% failure rate according to statistics

    If I screw up, God might strike me down with "triple compound discipline" at any given moment.

    God does discipline way ward sons (Hebrews)

    Emotions are evil and are very dangerous.

    I can see what he is saying. Too much emotionalism is bad. The Pentecostal movement is all based on emotions and Benny Hinn is a classic example

    "You should only listen to the teachings of your right pastor (Col. Thieme) and no one else".

    Are we to listen to a 'wrong' Pastor? If you were my Pastor, would you want me to listen to Pastors from a different denomination that has different ideas to you? I dont think so.

    If he claims to have the only source of Biblical truth then I think he is arrogant. As I said I have heard over 200 tapes of his and never heard these quotes you made. I have heard him talk about other Pastors and the conventions hes been to and how Pastors are growing and getting better. In fact he has even mentioned many by name on tape.

    I certainly dont hold him as the only Bible expert in the world. And neither do I think that of you.

    Thieme is a head strong military man who totally believes in what he teaches with great conviction.

    The question I ask is "If someone asked him how to get saved, would his answer lead to eternal life for that person?"

    My answer is an emphatic yes based on his invitations he has made to people in his Church that I have heard on tape.

    He tells people "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved (Faith Alone in Christ Alone)

    I measure that fruit. His Soteriology is fine and so is his teachings on the God Head. Maybe he has different views on other issues, but I dont condemn him for these. If I was to call every person that had different views in the Christian world a cultist, I could call no one Christian.

    I am not a Calvinist and yet I call them Christians because their Soteriology is fine and the same goes for many Arminians. There Soteriology is okay.

    If we are to say we are the only source of truth then we lower ourselves to the level of claims as Thieme makes (assuming he made them)

    This I will not do. If they believe in Faith Alone in Christ Alone and believe in the Trinity, they are Christians in my view.

    Just because they have different views on sanctification, eschatology and many other issues doesnt write them off as Christians.

    We could get picky about the age of the earth, when the rapture is, other eschatology issues, and so many many other non salvation issues and declare anyone that is opposed to us as non Christians. That would arrogant. Thieme doesnt like Baptists and many other fundamentalists, but he does still call them saved Christians. A cult doesnt do that.

    Ask a JW, Mormon, or Christadelfian some time if you are doing the right thing.

    They wont call you a true Christian, but Thieme will.
     

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