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Theological PhDs

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Martin, May 31, 2006.

  1. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Broadus,

    I'm not arguing that PhDs don't make good pastors.

    But I don't agree that the PhD is the best degree for all pastors to pursue. Mastery of biblical languages takes a lifetime. Not everyone can be Dan Wallace or Stan Porter.

    For those who are gifted academically the PhD is great - these men will bless many with their knowledge. But that is not for everyone. So I'm not saying that the PhD is a BAD idea for those going into ministry - I think that the DMin probably the best all around pastoral degree for the average pastor in training.
     
  2. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    Charles,

    I'm not sure that our perspectives are all that different. I don't like the general necessity of a pastor's leaving his place of ministry to do a PhD, since more PhD offerings require residency within a relatively short driving distance to the seminary.

    I hope the day is not too distant when pastors can earn a PhD in OT or NT, theology, or church history without having to relocate to a seminary. I know for a fact that many pastors do a DMin who really want to do a PhD. Residency is the issue. Many pastors desire more academic training than is typically provided with the DMin, though some DMins, for instance some of the programs at SBTS, Gordon-Conwell, and RTS, seem to allow for a more academic thrust while including the practical training of a DMin.

    Of course, there are a very few non-accredited seminaries which offer quality non-residency PhD programs. Whitefield Theological Seminary comes to mind. Also, there are a couple of very viable options for a distance PhD or ThD in South Africa.

    Thanks for your interaction and kind spirit.

    Bill
     
  3. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Wow! I've been extremely busy so I haven't been around. Quite a change on the old BB.

    Charles, I think that you are right on your statement concerning what most pastors need. A Ph.D. is probably not the ticket for most. In fact, most don't want to study that much! In one group of ministers that I frequent, they didn't want to discuss Grudem's Systematic Theology.

    I do think that the average M.Div. holding minister would benefit from a D.Min. program that focused on one topic for three years.

    BTW, I am now teaching and developing courses at a regionally accredited university! What a thrill to serve as a professor and continue to work as a pastor of a local church.
     
  4. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    My father pastored 56 years before the lord called him home. He had 3 doctorate degree's and a PhD. He always signed his name Rev. and said that was the highest degree or honor any man of GOD could have.

    He was a great teacher/preacher because of his education. Each sunday he would preach the sunday school lesson and said it was the theme of the day. When called to guest churches, I seen him read their theme in the program and preach it like he came with that message. Incidentally, I never saw him carry a bible except the amplified version he brought from his office for bible study.

    He held a Monday night class for pastors and other clergy who would not otherwise be exposed to doctorinal teaching. One year at the Baptist convention, the guest lecturer had to leave at the last minute. During the first session, the moderator asked him to step in. He took the material the other lecturer had prepared and taght it like it was his. He lectured 4 days for 4 hours a day that week.

    Yes, I believe education is a great thing...
     
  5. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Father?

    LeBuick,

    Sir, thank you for your input about the need for advanced degree in the pastoral role.

    May I inquire as to whom your father was? I understand if you do not want to name him publicly on the BB.

    You could however send me a PM if you prefer.

    I would like to honor him and have this bit of SBConvention history in my repertoire.

    Thanks,

    sdg!

    rd
     
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Outta curiosity, what is the qualitative difference between a Ph.D., the common degree of today's Seminaries, and a Th. D., which seemed to be more common a few years ago? I note Dallas, and I believe Southern, to name two, do not today offer a Th.D..

    Ed
     
  7. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    PhD vs. ThD

    Ed,

    Mostly there is not much difference at all. Most of the schools with which I am familiar have shifted from the ThD to the PhD b/c it is more recognizable than in the ThD. It use to be that the ThD was earned at the seminary and the PhD was earned at the university.

    Mid America has done this as well as The Southern Baptist Seminary. Although there are still a few of them around. The ones that I have seen (as late as last week) are putting an emphasis on the ThD as a pastoral degree and the PhD as a research degree.

    It is funny how the pendulum swings back and forth in the academic world. We want the best theological education but we want "the world" to think us as well educated as they are. It seems to beg the whole question of academics and accreditation does it not?

    But, for all of you who have read my "rants and raves" over the years about my being "for" RA and ATS accreditation; I am only raising a point. I still believe both accrediting bodies are "necessary evils" so as to dictate a modicum of standards in the educational fields. Without these agencies the American, and especially the theological education standards, would get away with all that they could.:thumbs:

    Amen!

    sdg!:type:

    rd
     
  8. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    ThDs

    For all who have an ear:

    The ThDs from UNISA (university of South Africa et al) are accredited by the gov. under the type of educational systems that follow the UK paradigm.

    They are accredited in the same was as say Oxford or Cambridge in England.

    FYI!

    sdg!

    rd

    PS. UZThD has one of those degrees. It is quit exhaustive and very very rigorous. Ask him about it sometime. He will be glad to share. They are degree by dissertation/thesis.
     
  9. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    PhDs and the Pastorate

    FYI!

    Just for the record the new SBC president is an academic:




    Dr. Frank S. Page, Pastor, grew up in Greensboro, North Carolina. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree from Gardner Webb University in Psychology, with minors in Sociology and Greek. He holds a Master of Divinity and Ph.D. degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has served churches in Texas, North Carolina, Georgia and now in South Carolina. He is married to Dayle, and has three daughters, Melissa, Laura, and Allison.
    "My greatest passion is to lead people to a love relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. I strongly believe that pastoral leadership leads people to this love in a deepening walk of discipleship and ministry. I also believe that being a pastor leads people to evangelism where others are brought to that very same love. I am passionate about leadership, equipping, and encouraging others. I have felt since the age of four that God wanted me to be a minister of the Gospel and have attempted to be faithful to that calling since that time."

    For what it is worth!

    sdg!

    rd​
     
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