Theology of Ten Commandments Project

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Tim, Feb 25, 2003.

  1. Tim

    Tim
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    Is anyone familiar with the Ten Commandments project (tencommandmentsproject.org)?
    It seems to be presenting a sort of Law-gospel, i.e. learning the commandments will make you a better person, whether Jew, Catholic or Evangelical. Jesus Christ barely gets a mention.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  2. Ben W

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    I suppose it depend if you believe the Ten Commandments are to be kept today.

    Revelation 14:12 would seem to suggest they are ongoing yet coupled with the Faith of Jesus.
     
  3. Tim

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    Can we really take that phrase out of Revelation and say that it's talking about the Ten Commandments? It's not so defined there.

    But other clearer New Testament teaching demonstrates that the Ten Commandments have been superceded by the New covenant in Christ Jesus. For example 2 Cor.3:5-11, Gal. 2:16-21, 3:23-26, 4:1-11, 21-31, 5:1 & more.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  4. Ben W

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    Yet it says Commndments of God in the passage, rather than the commandments of Jesus as mentioned in the passages in the New Testament.

    Just an observation :confused:
     
  5. HankD

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    Dear Ben,

    The Apostle John made a clear distinction between The Law and grace...

    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14: 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

    John 6:29 ...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
    .

    Christians are not under the Law as was taught from the beginning, read all of Acts 15, here are the highlights ...

    Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved...

    5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
    6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
    7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
    8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
    9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
    10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
    11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


    Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    HankD
     
  6. mountainrun

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    Yes, Hank. But as you may well know, some people would rather carry the burdens of old.

    MR
     
  7. Ben W

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    Yet Revalation 14:12 says what it says.
     
  8. Pastor Chet

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    It seems like some don't understand the relationship between law and grace.There is a difference between keeping the moral law(10 Commandments)in order to earn salvation like the judaizers versus keeping the law because of our love for the Savior who died for us and the fact that the moral law was not done away with.It really is as simple as antinomianism versus obedience to our Savior. Christ didn't come to do away with the Law but to fulfil it. The law is stll our school master. Without it we wouldn't know what sin was. Sin is still transgression of the law.Even non-believers know it is wrong to steal,kill,lie,etc because God has wrote the law on their hearts.But Praise to God who has redeemed me from the curse of the law by hanging on the tree in my place. I am now free. Free to live a moral life for my redeemer
    chet
     
  9. Tim

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    The Law WAS (past tense) our (the Jews-from the context)schoolmaster to bring us to Christ(historically speaking), that we might be justiied by faith. But after that faith (not our personal faith--but the Christian faith) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.(Gal. 3;24,25)

    Christ fulfilled all the Law. He didn't divide it up, theologians did.

    A believer in a better covenant,

    Tim
     
  10. Tim

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    The Law WAS (past tense) our (the Jews-from the context)schoolmaster to bring us to Christ(historically speaking), that we might be justiied by faith. But after that faith (not our personal faith--but the Christian faith) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.(Gal. 3;24,25)

    Christ fulfilled all the Law. He didn't divide it up, theologians did.

    A believer in a better covenant,

    Tim
     
  11. hrhema

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    As I have said on other threads, Christian liberty is a very dangerous thing as taught by some individuals and churches. It turns liberty into license to sin.

    There are commandments in the New Testament. We are not to murder, lie, cheat, steal, commit sexual sins, gossip, talebear, be disobedient to parents etc. In the book of Revelation it says that all liars will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven yet I know many people who claim to be Christian who believe in Christian liberty who have no problem with lying, cheating, and dishonesty including some in the ministry.

    I have found that many who believe in eternal security believe also that they can live any way they choose and there won't be any repurcussions.
    That they can do whatever their heart or flesh desires and still be saved. I take exception to this. I don't believe God takes away salvation from anyone and I know people sin and make mistakes but individuals who live a sinful life I cannot believe will inherit the kingdom of God.
    I have known a lot of people who commits sexual sins. They cuss and get drunk. They lie, steal, cheat etc yet they will tell you they are Christians and they have eternal security. They received Jesus years back and know they are guaranteed salvation so they don't have to live a good life. They have it made. I think they are deceived.
     
  12. Tim

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    I heartily agree that many so-called Christians hide behind what they call liberty as an excuse to serve the flesh. The problem is God's Spirit is not in control of their spirit, most likely because they are not saved in the first place.

    But legalism is not the solution--that's trying to hammer in good conduct from the outside hoping it will reach the heart. Rather, the good works must spring from a heart which Christ has changed.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  13. HankD

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    Dear Tim you responded to my post the following RE: The law of Moses

    with …

    Revelation 14
    12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    John, who wrote the Revelation was also an apostle. He was there at the apostolic gathering in Acts 15. He endorsed the letter which was sent out to all the churches.

    Acts 15
    23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
    24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
    25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

    The only solution is that John does not mean the Law of Moses by the "commandments of God".
    The commandments of God are those which John repeats over and over again in His Gospel and epistles.

    The Apostle John made a clear distinction between The Law and grace...

    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14: 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

    John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

    John 6:29 ...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    HankD
     
  14. Tim

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    Hank,

    I think you meant to address Ben instead of me.

    I'm with you on this one!

    A believer in a better covenant,

    Tim
     
  15. Ben W

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    Are the Ten Commandments not Gods Commandments?
     
  16. HankD

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    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Yes, the Ten commandments are God's commandments to the Hebrews. The Law or the Torah is their source. Christians have another law, the law of grace and truth.

    The "commandments of God" in the Revelation are linked together with the faith of Jesus versus the law of Moses.
    Jesus commandments (some of which were enumerated previously) is what is being refered to by John in the Revelation, or else how could he have participated in the Acts 15 letter to the churches.

    HankD
     
  17. Pastor Chet

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    If God's commandments were commandments to the Hebrews only,then only the Hebrews can sin because John says in 1John 3:3 that sin is transgression of the law.
     
  18. Daniel David

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    God's law existed before the decalogue. God cut a specific law for all of Israel.
     
  19. HankD

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    Actually Pastor Chet the last phrase of the verse says (literally) "sin is lawlessness".

    But (imo) in a way you are right, in this age the Law is universal but for the lost:
    1 Titus 1
    8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
    9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    We are under a law of some kind. Those of us who walk in the Spirit do not need the Law. The indwelling Holy Spirit (His seed) abides in us and those things which the Law forbids are repulsive to us anyway.

    A hog desires garbage, swill and the wallow.

    The sheep want the Shepard and His Law (His rod and staff), the clear water, green pastures, etc...
    You don't need to tell a sheep to stay out of the wallow or not to eat swill.

    The sheep can wander from the fold if he takes his eyes off the Shepard, but when he cries out for the the Shepard , well, you know the rest of the story...

    HankD
     
  20. blackbird

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    As a believer of the Lord Jesus Christ I believe with all of my heart that the commands given in the Old Testament--the ten we call the ten commands--are not obsolete for our day, but they are absolute truths we need to absorb and obey with all of our hearts, souls, and bodies.

    Blackbird
     

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