There are two Israels...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Nov 28, 2008.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    in scripture. Agree?

    Now, to which Israel is the Kingdom restored?
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    ummm......no
     
  3. Allan

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    How can a Kingdom be restored it was never a Kingdom prevously?
     
  4. Allan

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    Agreed.........:thumbs:
     
  5. OldRegular

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    There were two Israel's; Spiritual Israel and national Israel. [Romans 9] Even Ryrie Dispensationalism, page127, seems to agree.
     
    #5 OldRegular, Nov 28, 2008
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  6. Revmitchell

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    I do not buy into any form of replacement theology.
     
  7. Allan

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    Ryrie isn't stating there are 'two' Israels nor does Ryrie state that the Church is 'spiritual Israel'.
    From Ryries Basic Theology Section 13, Subsection "ll Doctrinal Characterists of Premillinnealism:
    Or here in Ryries Basic Theology Section 12; subsection"I will build my Church".
    Nothing about the church being spiritual Israel. We can be said to be spirtual partake WITH Israel regarding some of God's promises to it but we are distinct from Israel as the scriptures dictate.
     
  8. J.D.

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    Galatians 6:16 (KJV) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


    Gill:



    1 Corinthians 10:18 (KJV) Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

    Gill again:
     
  9. Allan

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    Sorry, but Gill's opinions are nothing more than his opinions of what the scripture is saying and not necessarily what scripture is actaully saying.

    To use Gill's opinions or any other who holds to such a view means that you will acknowledge all others veiws that differ just as truthful and accurate a renderings as Gill
     
    #9 Allan, Nov 29, 2008
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  10. Pastor Larry

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    If by that you mean that there is genetic Israel, and that "true Israel" is a subset of genetic Israel, then yes. That is what Paul teaches in Romans 9.

    This is actually a great proof that Israel and the church are distinct. You notice there are two groups here: 1) those who walk according to this rule and 2) the Israel of God. Paul is prayer for peace and mercy for both groups. Gill is incorrect on this passage.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    I did not say that Ryrie said that spiritual Israel was the Church. I said that he implied there were two israel, spiritual Israel and national Israel. Did you read the page I referenced? Please do not imitate Mitchell and imply that I am lying. This seems to be a tactic of dispensationalists when they cannot defend their doctrine.

    The Apostle Paul certainly teaches that Spiritual Israel and the Church are the same. Simply read the parable of the olive tree in Romans 11. Also compare the following:

    Romans 2:28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    Romans 2:29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


    Colossians 2:9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    Colossians 2:10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
    Colossians 2:11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Maybe you should just keep this thread about this thread.
     
    #12 Revmitchell, Nov 29, 2008
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  13. OldRegular

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    Is it hard for you to kick against the truth?:laugh:
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    And you continue to make my point.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    And just what is your point?

    There were two Israels: A believing remnant, spiritual israel, and carnal National Israel.
     
  16. J.D.

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    Well, okay, if all we have is opinions, let's just call the whole thing off.
     
  17. J.D.

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    But what about the other scripture I mentioned? Doesn't the fact that Paul mentions an "Israel according to the flesh" mean that there must be an "Isreal NOT according to the flesh"?
     
  18. Jarthur001

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    Sorry, but your opinions are nothing more than your opinions.
     
  19. Jarthur001

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    Sorry, but Ryries opinions are nothing more than his opinions of what the scripture is saying and not necessarily what scripture is actaully saying.

    To use Ryries opinions or any other who holds to such a view means that you will acknowledge all others veiws that differ just as truthful and accurate a renderings as Ryries
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    Maybe you could just state your point without harassing him.
     

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