There's only "One Day" of God's Wrath!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mel Miller, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    Friends,

    The Lastday starts with the 7th Plague!

    Point #16 of "My (50-Point) Outline" states:
    _______________________________________________
    16. Plague #7 empties in air; remains suspended until Trump #7
    _______________________________________________

    All those “having come out of great tribulation” and from “under the Altar” appear in heaven's Temple in Rev.7:14 after it opens as of Rev.7:9. (Martyrs under Altar until lastday. Rev.6:9). Lastday events begin with the signs of Seal Six; but no one enters the Temple until Plague #7!

    A Key to Revelation is that John often describes events in an order that fits the context rather than a "reading sequence".

    Not until the last Plague empties in the air will the smoke of God’s glory and power clear the Temple for anyone to enter. Rev.15:8.

    No one will suffer God's wrath until sixty of 100 verses, from Rev.6:12 to Rev.8:5; from Rev.14:1 to Rev.15:5 and Rev.11:12 to Rev.11:19 are fulfilled while the 7th Plague remains suspended in the air on the Lastday! These 60 verses occur in a "required sequence". (But not yet Rev.14:20 which is fulfilled in Rev.19:15).

    In the 7th Trumpet, the only other place besides Rev.15:5 that states: "The Temple was Open", the Ark of the Covenant appears for the first time
    and on earth "an earthquake and great hail". And, as they say: "All hell breaks loose on earth"
    . . . "for God's wrath has come"! Rev.11:18-19.

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     
  2. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    Pretribulationism teaches, the wrath of God is seven year of tribulation period.

    For example- they use two verses for the proof of pretribulation - 1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9 says, we shall be deliver from the wrath of God. My question for pretribbers, do 1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9 actual saying that the wrath of God is so called, 'seven years of tribulation period'?

    Throughout centuries, we have seen and heard of the records about cities, nations, and countries were destruction caused by natural disaters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc. Were these cause by God's act of His wrath?

    All posttribbers and pretribbers agree with 1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9 telling us, that we shall be deliver from the wrath of God.

    The ten plaques fallen upon Egytians are the goos examples, that God knows how to protect Hebrews during ten plaques pour upon Egyptians same time.

    Posttribbers understand 1 Thess. 1:10 means, we shall be deliver from the wrath of God, BECAUSE we received salvation through Jesus Christ. What the wrath of God for? Send person into everlasting punishment for not believe on Christ, and remain in wicked life. John 3:36 tells us, any person who do not believing on Christ, the wrath of God is already abide upon a person same time. Unless, till a person repent and believing on Christ.

    'Wrath' & 'tribulation' both are different defintion and purpose.

    We are appointed for tribulation because Christ suffered for us - 1 Thess. 3:3-4. But, we are not appointed for the wrath of God, because we received salvation through Jesus Christ.

    By the way, book of Revelation was written, it is not chronological order, these are recycles, retelling the events.

    Revelation 6:2-Rev. 6:12-15- 6 seals cover between first advent and second advent parallel with Matt. 24:4-9 & 29-30. Ends comes at Rev. 6:12-15 as God's wrath reveals toward people who do not believe on Christ, same with Matt. 24:29-30.

    Revelation 8:1- Rev. 11:15 -7 trumpets cover from first advent to second advent. The seventh trumpet blown, and said, "It is DONE", as it ends at Christ's coming, as God's wrath shall be revealed to the world.

    Revelation chapter 10 shown it is 'paused' and give brief of the passage about the judgement. Revelation chapter 10 is in the middle between Rev. 8:1 thru 9:21 and 11:1-19. Revelation chapter 10 is not focus on the part of seven trumpets, but it given brief passage about the judgement.

    Revelation chapter 12 covers about the history between first advent and second advent. It mentioned about the history of Satan, Jesus Christ, and the Church.

    Revelation chapter 13 covers about the future of Satan's reveal to the world, and will force all nations to worship him, also shall persecute against the Church.

    Revelation chapter 14 mentioned about the harvest of the world is speak of the end of the age follow the coming of the Lord.

    Revelation chapter 15 and 16 covers seven vials shall be at the closing of the age as the wrath of God pour upon the world. Rev. 16:15 tells us, that we shall be gathering together at Christ's coming as the thief in the night BEFORE the battle of armageddon occurs - Rev. 16:16.

    Revelation chapter 17 and 18 talks about the history of Babylon, the rise and fallen of Babylon.

    Revelation chapter 19 mentioned about the second coming of Christ for to marry the Church, come to the earth to judge the world.

    Revelation 20:1-3 cover between first advent and second advent, that the Church is now reigning with Christ in the heaven, and Church have power to preach the gospel to the world, while Satan is restrained from being to deceive the world according to 2 Thess. 2:6-7; Rev. 17:8.

    Rev. 20:8-10 covers about the closing of the age, and Satan's final judgement.

    Rev. 20:11-15 covers about the judgement day after Lord's coming.

    Revelation chapter 21 and 22 mentioned about future eternity state, where two groups shall be spend beyond Christ's coming.

    Early in my Christian life, I though the book of Revelation is chronological order, like as 7 seals cover the first of 3 1/2 years of seven year tribulation period. 7 trumpets covers during in the middle of seven year tribulation period. 7 vials cover last 3 1/2 years of seven year tribulation period. Now, I realized, all seals, trumpets, and vials are merge together toward the coming of Christ at the end of the age same time.

    I urge you to rereading Revelation repeat and repeat, take your time to get understand better what these are talking about.

    The real wrath of God shall not be revealed TILL at the end of the age, as Christ shall send His angels to gathering all unbelievers for the judgement day follow at Christ's coming same time.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  3. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    DeafPosttrib,

    Interesting rundown of events with excellent
    last sentence in my opinion:
    _______________________________________________
    "The real wrath of God shall not be revealed TILL at the end of the age, as Christ shall send His angels to gathering all unbelievers for the judgement day follow at Christ's coming same time".
    ________________________________________________

    Question:

    Have you discovered that God's wrath is NOT
    "completed in six of the seven plagues" as
    found in all English translations but one? Rev.15:1.

    The reason is that God still allows worshipers
    of the Beast to "repent" as late as the 4th and 5th Plagues. As long as they are able to "gather to Armageddon", it is obvious that God's anger has not yet "mixed with His wrath" as Rev.14:10 states it will before unbelievers drink the
    "wine of the Cup of His anger & wrath".
    Rev.16:9-11 (repent?); Rev.16:18-21 (wrath).

    When I discovered WHY the early Church Fathers
    translated the Plagues "completed God's wrath"
    (not "orgay"; but "thumos"), I realized how Satan may have used the teaching of Plato to deceive even the Elect into thinking that anger cannot be attributed to God. His wrath therefore could not be restricted to an eternal existence in Hell and total deprivation of His blessings.
    His "wrath" would just be a synonym for anger.

    On the Day that comes "suddenly, as a snare on all mankind", unbelievers cannot be saved when they realize God's wrath is imminent UNLESS they "keep begging to escape and they prevail to stand before the Son of Man". Luke 21:35-36.

    I have found that only The New Jerusalem Bible
    correctly translates the Greek to say that:
    "The 7 last Plagues exhaust God's anger". Its
    editors evidently knew what I have found out,
    i.e., Plato taught that "God cannot be affected by the `perturbations (disturbance or agitation)
    of human anger'!

    If the Plagues contain God's wrath, then it is
    easy to argue that we must be raptured first!!

    Plato thought that God's Supremacy places Him so far above human emotions that He could not even
    "change His mind" (in accommodating Himself to human exigencies) as in the case of Ninevites. Jonah preached and they repented after God considered destroying them within 40 days.

    God "would" forgive Beast-Worshipers IF they
    should repent; but wrath is imminent after the Court Sits in Judgment during the 7th Seal.
    The Martyrs must meet God and the Lamb in the Temple (Rev.7:9-17) after the Last Plague empties in the air. Then the Court Sits
    (Dan.7:9-22 to judge the Beast) and that in
    turn leads to God's anger "mixing full strength in the cup of His wrath" on the Lastday! Rev.14:10.

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I still can't filgure out why some folk can't
    figure out that things are different if they aren't the same.
    If anybody has a 'tribulation' that is different
    from the ones below, then give your spill.
    There certainly are NOT less than what i've listed.

    In the following writing of mine, i've given emphesas to
    'wrath' by bolding:

    ------------------------------------------------
    The Five Tribulations
    of the Holy Bible
    Contrasted and compared
    by ed

    The following terms are used in the Holy Bible to denote
    tribulation: tribulation, distress, afliction, trouble

    1. tribulation due to the human condition
    WHO: all the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve
    WHAT: heartaches, pains, troubles, distresses, disappointements,
    affliction, trouble, ordeal, suffering, wretchedness,
    misfortune, worry, care, hardship, agony,
    anguish, torment, adversity,
    travail of a woman giving birth, disease, cancer,
    famine, plague, fatigue, depression, etc.
    WHEN: From Adam's explusion from the Garden of Eden
    to the day a new heaven & new earth is created by
    God, AKA: time as opposed to eternity
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: God only knows why, it is just the way things are,
    maybe it has to do with the fall of man in the Garden of Eden?

    2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
    WHO: those Christians chosen by the Holy Spirit for special honor
    WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
    even people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
    WHEN: 33AD to the start of the millinnial kingdom of Jesus
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: many are called to follow Jesus;
    few are chosen to the honor of the spiritual
    gift of martyrdom

    3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
    WHO: Yisrael dispersed among the goy
    WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
    usually people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
    WHEN: during the time of the Gentiles
    (from Mount Calvary to Mount Olivet)
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: punishment for rejecting Messiah Jesus

    4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antichrist
    (AKA: Wrath of the Lamb /Revelation 6:17/ )
    WHO: citizens of the world
    WHAT: a fate worse than death (Rev 6:15-17, Rev 9:6)
    WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (first half)
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

    5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antrichrist
    WHO: people who take the mark of the beast
    WHAT: the wrath of God
    WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (last half)
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

    Here are the names/descriptions of the Tribulation
    Period found in the O.T.:

    The tribulation in Deut 4:30
    the day of Israel's calamity in Deut 32:35, Obadiah 1:12-14
    the indignation in Isaiah 26:20, Daniel 11:36
    the overflowing scourge in Isaiah 28:15,18
    The Lord's strange work in Isaiah 28:21
    The year of recompence in Isaiah 34:8
    The day of vengeance in Isaiah 34:8, 35:4, 61:2
    The time of Jacob's Trouble in Jeremiah 30:7
    The day of darkness in Joel 2:2, Amos 5:18, 20; Zephaniah 1:15
    See also Zephaniah 1:15-16.:
     
  5. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    Brother Ed,

    Seems you really missed the point on this one.
    "LAST HALF of Daniel's 70th week"???????????
    Your Quote:
    ______________________________________________
    5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antrichrist
    WHAT: the wrath of God
    WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (last half)
    _______________________________________________

    The Wrath of the Lamb comes "after" instead of
    during the 70th week of Daniel. "Chronos-Time
    will be no longer when the 7th Trumpet sounds
    that God's wrath has come . . and the appointed
    time to reward the Saints". Rev.10:6-7; 11:10.

    Therefore, No rapture takes place until "there is no more delay and God's mystery was finished" (aorist indicative; done deal) AS TOLD TO THE
    PROPHETS LIKE DANIEL".

    As Jesus says, He will rescue His Saints on the
    SAME Day He is revealed "as it was on the Day
    Lot was rescued". Luke 17:29-30.

    No chapter in the Bible refers to the Saints
    as many times as Dan.7 where the Court sits
    (Dan.7:22; Seal 7) and the Saints come with
    the Son of Man to destroy the Beast ON THAT
    DAY. That DAY is the only day to which Jesus
    refers when He affirms He is coming AFTER
    the Great Tribulation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You have made no reply whatsoever to the
    evidence above that the Plagues do no more than
    "exhaust God's anger". "No one can enter the
    Temple in heaven until the last Plague empties".
    Rev.15:8. "The Temple was Open" in the 7th
    Trumpet only because the wrath of God comes
    after the last Plague empties in the air".
    Rev.11:19.

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     

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