They do not deserve a *State*

LE,

You might be right. Let's wait and see how Abbas responds to this. Israel has made concessions (moved the fence, given up land, and released prisoners), America has given him more money for security, now the ball is in his court. Will he make a real attempt to bring peace to his region and reign in the terrorists, or will he blow it for his people. If he blows it, then Sharansky (and to a point, myself) will stand up and declare I told you so with the repeat of the Oslo stupidity (land for peace with no reciprocity). If he does lead his people toward peace, it will be a great day for Israel and for the world.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, especially now.

 

Pray for the return of the Messiah, as that is the only time Israel will win lasting peace.

 

I remain optimistic that within the next 20 years that the Israelis and the Palestinians will be living peacefully side by side in separate states.

 

I believe that to be the case.

 

Both of you, LadyEagle and hillclimber, will be sadly disappointed since you have both bought into a false teaching. Also, please notice that I am not the one who introduced eschatological beliefs into this thread.

 

What is even sadder, is that they almost have to hope there is no peace in Israel in order for their eschatological views to work. Nevermind the thousands who are being killed in this conflict. They're only role, really, is to usher in the second coming.

Joseph Botwinick

 

umm...I was referring to Israel.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Isn't that one of your signs: When Israel rebuilds the temple and all the Jews move back to Israel? Tell me something: What would happen to your eschatological beliefs if the Jews and Palestinians were to start livning in peace tommorow?

Joseph Botwinick

 

If I was a betting man, I'd be wanting to take you up on that one, Joseph.

But if I could answer the question, If Israel & Palestine start living in complete & total peaceful bliss tomorrow, than just about all the other Islamofacist fighters would have to lay down their arms, and most of the world's wars would stop. I would surmise that I had somehow missed the rapture, and the world had about 3 &1/2 years to enjoy their peace.

 

Wow, L.E. The great minds always think alike, eh ?

 

I would know that (according to Biblical end-times prophecy) the anti-Christ had risen to power and had brokered the truce, which he will break after 3-1/2 years, turning on Israel with death and destruction - so brokering the peace is not really a good thing, is it Joseph? </font>[/QUOTE]Your right, LE. All those saved Israeli lives who would have been murdered by terrorists...what a horrible thing that would be. It is a shame that your theology almost sits on the sidelines and cheers on further violence in the Middle East so you can fullfill some Pre-mill doctrine. But hey, as long as it is not your ox that is getting gored, I guess that is ok. Somehow, I have this feeling that had you grown up in Israel, you would be more willing to try to achieve peace.

What a shame.

Joseph Botwinick

 

No one is cheering anything, Joseph. Get a grip.

If I had grown up in Israel, I would not be for the Bush Road Map, rewarding the terrorists. I would be more aligned with those folks who live there are opposed to giving up land to terrorists, hoping to pacify a peace with terrorists, like these people here.In fact, I would probably be a radical and insist that the Palestinians either become Israeli citizens and stop the violence, or be deported to some Arab country. Like I said, get a grip. </font>[/QUOTE]I have no doubt that you would be part of the same radical group in Israel that was calling for violence against Rabin just a short time before he was assasinated by one of those radical extremists. Speaking of which, I wonder if this isn't the same group of radicals I saw calling for the death of Rabin just shortly before it happened. Are you sure you want to identify yourself with that?

Joseph Botwinick

 

No one is cheering anything, Joseph. Get a grip.
</font>[/QUOTE]LE,

Peace between the Jews and Palestinians seems to go against everything you believe about eschatology, and therefore, anytime the possibility is even mentioned, you scoff at it. I do believe you are cheering on the violence. I have never seen you even once put forward a positive thought about peace between the Jews and Palestinians. I wonder why if has nothing to do with your theology.

Joseph Botwinick