They have fallen from Grace

Mal 3:6 "I the LORD do not change."

So can we go to the OT to find out how God feels about todays Christianity? I would think so. Besides the Apostles scriptures were those of the OT. I can think of them referring to there own words as scripture (not to say their words have not authority, but I'm simply saying that they taught many believers to continue and to have faith in Jesus based on the OT). So.....

1 Tim 1:8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Well, how does one "use it properly"? One should read it to learn about the Love of God keeping in mind that he does not change. So though God give commands to certain people they may not have been given directly to us, we should at the very least trust that if God expected righteousness then he expects righteousness today. Also His response to sin then would be the same for today. If one sees God's heart in the command.

Duet 30:11-14
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.


From the scripture above is it not clear that the ability to obey (love) God is within out grasp. Meaning we have the ability aforded by the commandment from the Commander to do what he want us to do. So the word is in us so that we may obey it. "May obey..." meaning that just because its in us and near us does not mean that we will do what God want us to do. We still have to follow the Spirit of Gods Words by choice. We must decide to be a slave to that righteousness.

So, I believe that God give us the oppertunity not only to come to Him through faith in His Word, but also to make daily choices to follow the Spirit (Word) of God. To be righteous by doing what is expected by God.

Well, this would apply to those who put there faith in God. But what happens to those who fall from that grace?

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

What does it mean to be "justified" by something? Basically, you trust in it soley as your source of salvation. People who live this way often do not see the need for repentance and mercy. But have FALLEN from grace.

Some today, however, have said that you cannot fall from a forgiven state and that state being grace obviously.

But how does God see it in the OT? I think the same as it was seen in the early church:

Ezekiel 18:24
"But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.

Unfortunately, many "Christian" religions preach that one is saved before he comes to Christ and after coming to Christ you are always saved and lack the ability to obey Christ law whole heartedly. So now the world sees NO DIFFERENCE between themselves and the church. These groups have now realized that their teachings are not producing faithful people both in doctrine and life. Outside critics araise and present scriptures that conflict with the fruitless lives of these Believers. An answer is need to combat these accusations and still hold on to a straw foundation of faith.

The answer from this movement: "There is no way a TRUE believer will ever leave God. So, that means those that leave God were NEVER saved in the first place!"

So now yet another "Reasonable" deduction made from a false premise.
(it should also be noted that this line of reasoning puts more faith in the believer than in God - or predestination)

Ezekiel 18:24 show, however, that a man is Judged by God according to how he lives in faith to him not just what he believes - And that it is possible to obey in faith - And, that a man can fall from grace when he goes back to living wordly. None of the righteous things he done before will be remembered (not that he didn't do anything righteous, but he simply fell from grace by not repenting).

So God responded this way in the old testament and has the same response in the new testament (this refers to believers in Him not "Non-believers)

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Is it true that Jesus "Never knew" us? Yes, in the sense of Ezekiel 18. What satifaction can God have in having part of a person's life and not all of the persons life? They can be justified by their earlier obedience, but only complete obedience.

Not all believers are saved in the end, but ONLY those who live the truth as taught be Christ till he comes back or they die!

 

Many start off faithful, but all must still be careful as the bible warns in order to "Always" be saved.

How can some one fully get the continued message of encouragements and warning as given in the NT if they do not believe it applies to them?

I would then have to say that many are not receiving the full Gospel of Gods Grace.

 

Thanks for your post. I did notice some "garble" as you say, but mainly due to bad grammer and spelling on my part, but I do hope that people can still make it out. I rushed when writing it, but it came from my heart.

But the "garble" that you are refering to is Fact! It is not garble! It's true. I read post around this board all the time of people who believed they were always saved, but only needed to come to that reality. People that teach they had NO CHOICE in giving there lives to Christ or Making Jesus Lord of their Life.

You don't see it? It's silly.

People are so afraid of their own definition of "Works" that they don't realize that they need to make efforts and have made efforts in coming to Christ and staying in Him. Not that all credit is not do God, but that God works with you according to your faith.

Look at it this way: Lets say a man hires you to pull 10 sq.ft. of weeds out of is lawn every Tuesday for three weeks. This man is very wealthy and could have hired anyone he wanted but he afforded the oppertunity to you. He has other servants that do far more work that you. And at the end of your work the man paid you three years wages.

Did you deserve those wages? DId you really earn those wages? NOT HARDLY!!

It was GRACE. From hiring till reward. The Heresy that I'm talking about are those who remove wholhearted efforts from their faith and attribute such foolish thinking to Jesus teachings. Those who say they only had to come to a "Realization" that they were saved and so by no way, on their own part, had to do anything to come to Christ. Foolishness!!

People don't understand the Grace they have because they DO NOT LIVE UP TO IT!

The fact is from false primses comes erroneous doctrines.

Work: is anything YOU DO. (but that doesn't agree with Repentance "metanoia" MIND CHANGE! Which is the First thing out of Jesus mouth when starting his ministry; REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM..... Well you know the rest. From Jesus message he expects a response! You "respond" don't you? Isn't that something you do.)

Jesus' first call to him did not include a pray (thoug people did pray), it did not say DO NOTHING AT ALL for the Kingdom of GOD is NEAR. But some "Christians" hear it that way.

How can you teach and live as a self proclaimed "Christian" while not repenting from beginning till end?

Because the fact is many self proclaimers do not want to change and have no faith. But because they have no faith the best they can reason is that "well all that is REALLY needed is, belief. That's what really matters"

But they do not see belief as Jesus does, because if they did they would believe his warnings. But since Jesus' warning do not apply to them, they do not believe him.

I'm sorry I may have more garble above. Once I started it was hard to stop.

 

Back to the original OP:

People fall from grace which is true.

you cannot fall if you were never lifted up.


Angels fall...

People who turn back to living wordly fall harder!

Gal 5

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Christian wannabe's reject "I warn you" because it doesn't matter how they live. But they will not say that with words - but they Scream aloud with their lives. They truly conform to the pattern of the World. These warning do not apply to them, for they are above repoach.

The world change their views and Christians follow in hot persuit.

Why do you think there are so many different "faith" groups?

20th century "Christians" live more to their culture than any of the earlier churches prior till the turn of 1st millennium.

Why is are their second thoughts about abortion, Living with lovers, gay ministers and member, wealth missions, to live whole-heartedly or not, what matters and what doesn't.

Why is it you can go to a "Christian" College and come out with a business degree and make way more money that what you truley need. I'm sure this will raise a few hairs, but it's true.

Why do 'Leaders" in Christian circles agree with the Government on what is "Politically" correct to talk about and what is not. Jesus never got involved in politics, He got politics involved with Him.

The fact is most of todays "christian" faiths and churches really are "positive energy" believers. Believers that seek to have heaven on earth.

Some may have started off well and good but many won't even fall past the startling line.

 

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DQ -

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to get out more or ask these OSASers more of the right kind of questions.

As it still stand, you are one who believe once saved there is nothing you can do to fall from salvation.

If you believe this way, you will have to twist and turn through every scripture that speak of condemnation of a unrepentant "believer".

Here's a question: Do you believe that Jesus and the Apostles address issues of People who believed at one time and turned back from God through the unrepentant life?

Yes or No please.

Example: Since it's clear in scripture, I can simply answer YES!

Can you Do the same?