They're (hopefully!) dying for a good cause.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ivon Denosovich, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
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    Here follows an exchange between (conservative) Republican John Warner and the big guy:

    WARNER: I hope in the recesses of your heart that you know that strategy will continue the casualties, stress on our forces, stress on military families, stress on all Americans. Are you able to say at this time, if we continue what you have laid before the Congress, this strategy, that if you continue, you are making America safer?

    PETRAEUS: Sir, I believe that this is indeed the best course of action to achieve our objections in Iraq.

    WARNER: Does that make America safer?

    PETRAEUS: Sir, I don't know actually. I have not sat down and sorted out in my own mind. What I have focused on and been riveted on is how to accomplish the mission of the Multinational Force in Iraq.

    Granted, P is not a policy maker. But still...
     
  2. Essene

    Essene
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    The guy who is in charge, doesn't know the difference in "objections" and "objectives." No wonder we're losing ground.

    "Victory in Iraq" has eluded Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld. They just keep moving the goalposts and hoping that someone will throw a "Hail Mary" at the last second. It will never happen.
     
  3. Don

    Don
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    Essene, Ivan mis-typed that word. Gen Petraeus actually used the word "objectives" (if you do a search, you can find the transcript).

    I'm surprised Petraeus answered the way he did. Strengthening Iraq makes it less likely to harbor international terrorists, and therefore should make America safer...so to answer like that means, there's something more going on.

    As for moving goal posts, well, you gotta have goal posts in order to move them....
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
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    So far the only Americans dying are those who volunteered to kill people and breake things and those civillians who volunteered to make a quarter million a year. Comes the draft and this time I join the protest mobs. Rather see the kids and grandkids go to Canada.
     
  5. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
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    Apologies for the typo.
     
  6. Dan V.

    Dan V.
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    I don't think we will win because God has not promised to bless those who bless the sons of Ishmael.

    Dan V.
     
  7. carpro

    carpro
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    Probably because there is no way to prove it , one way or the other.

    Another possible reason is that it not his decision to determine the overall strategy in the global war on terror. His mission is Iraq.
     
  8. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Which should be obvious. :laugh:
     
  9. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
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    Maybe. But perhaps it should be unsettling that a four star general and doctoral Princeton recipient has to essentially say, "Let me get back to you on that one," when asked about Iraq as a military priority. If the reason for putting soldiers in harm's way isn't blatantly obvious then it's time to reasses our priorities.
     
  10. Don

    Don
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    Ivon, you're now mixing apples. Petraeus did focus on Iraq as a military priority ("Sir, I believe that this is indeed the best course of action to achieve our objectives in Iraq.").

    It was the question about the overall strategy for America that Petraeus said, "let me get back to you."

    That strategy isn't defined by Petraeus; it's defined by the President, the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Council, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

    In other words, Warner asked Petraeus for a personal opinion. Upon reflection, I now understand what Petraeus was doing: like any good subordinate, you don't go publicly blabbing your personal opinions about your commanders.

    Just like church members shouldn't go around gossiping about their pastors.

    So with that in mind, would you like to re-think your position about Petraeus' testimony?
     
  11. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
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    I must confess, Sir, I'm lost. When I said military priority I was referring to a strategic necessity for America's safety and I think both Warner and Petraeus discussed it along those lines.

    True. But if the necessity for success in Iraq isn't clear to Petraeus it arguably won't be any clearer to anyone.

    I agree with your boss/pastor analogy. I'm still confused about what it is I'm confused about. But isn't that life?
     
  12. Don

    Don
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    Warner discussed it along those lines; Petraeus refused to answer.

    Again, they were asking for his personal opinion regarding the strategy laid out by his commanders.

    Let me put it to you like this: Your pastor has told you to do something. You voiced an objection; the pastor said, "I hear you, but we're going to do it this way anyway." Your choice is to now either do it, or walk away (leave that church). You decide to do it.

    Another pastor or deacon from another church wants to know if you think it's making your church better. Do you tell that person that you voiced your objections, or do you tell them that you're doing what your pastor told you to do?
     

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