This is why we have so many pastors.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by annsni, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. annsni

    annsni
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    Man, yesterday was crazy at church but none of the congregation knew. Our pastor walked in and wasn't feeling well. One of our congregants is a doctor who went in to see him and put him on oxygen and he was doing slightly better. When that tank ran out (it was only partially full - it was our own tank), we switched him to the new one but in the time of switching the tanks, his blood pressure shot up so it was pretty clear he needed to get to the hospital. However, the church service had started, we were at the second of 4 songs for worship (we do 4 worship songs, pastoral prayer (one of the other pastors), greeting, announcements, offering then message so this was about 30 minutes before the message) and he was supposed to preach. He was insisting he could still preach but there was obviously no way he could. So while we called an ambulance (who came to the back door so no one saw him leaving), the three pastors who had no responsibility that day (my husband, the missions pastor and the senior associate pastor - the others all had something to do during the service) spoke about who would give the message. Each one of them were ready to get up and give the message but it was decided that the missions pastor would take the day. He got up, gave his message and NO one knew that anything happened or that he only had about 25 minutes notice.

    All anyone knew is that pastor wasn't feeling well but they didn't know when that happened. For all they knew, it had happened during the week, not just a few minutes before (they prayed for him during the pastoral prayer). I have to say, it's wonderful to have the multiplicity of leaders in our church and to see the men step in where needed without even a skip.

    BTW - Pastor is doing better. :)
     
  2. Baptist4life

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    Still no excuse for 9 pastors. That has happened many times in my 58 years of attending church (pastor getting ill on Sunday) and it was always worked out without the need for 9 pastors. In my opinion, you can have as many "helpers" (call them what you want) but not 9 PASTORS.

    BTW, I'm glad your pastor is doing better.
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    Seriously "no excuse" wow...thanks for making policy for another church. The absolute myopia and dogmatism of some people around here, makes me weep for the Church at large.

    Just for the record, the church where I get to serve has about 15 ministers on staff. We are seeing amazing things happening for the Kingdom. Just because a church is run differently than your church doesn't mean that they are violating Scripture.

    annsi: glad to hear everything is going well. A multi-staff church does have an opportunity to pick up the pieces when things are on the verge of falling apart. In our context this Sunday we had a serious matter with another congregation come up, a sister church of ours in the area, and our Senior Pastor felt led to go and be with that church. The whole situation was very sad and he was able to minister so well to this other congregation (not getting into too many details.) Our church didn't miss a beat and one of our other associates walked into the pulpit and delivered a fine message. God was glorified. Maybe our context isn't for everyone, but for what we are called to do it is what we believe God has called us to be.
     
  4. Johnv

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    No excuse? If the congregation is large enough to be benefitted by 9 pastors, then let them have 9 pastors. This isn't a moral issue, it's a practical one. Sheesh! Let's stop foisting moral judgements on them.

    Sidenote: Annsi, I prayed for your pastor, and hope all is well with him.
     
    #4 Johnv, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2009
  5. sag38

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    I agree. What a shameful and judgmental attitude. Good for your church Ann.
     
  6. webdog

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    Who left you in charge of the matters of other churches? Scripture states there should be a plurality of elders, which a pastor is. That can be 2 or 20. You are way out of line here.
     
  7. Trotter

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    Every church of any appreciable size should follow that example, Ann. Most do, but they don't call all of them "pastors".

    Once a church gets over 100 it needs another to help the main pastor. Sadly, too many aren't willing to "share" their position, title, or power... or are too proud to ask for help. Jethro's advice to Moses is as sound today as it was when it was given.

    Many churches are afraid they can't afford to pay for additional pastors which is a sad commentary on where their eyes are pointed. Not every pastor has to be full time, and many would serve in partial capacity for nothing more than to be of use for the kingdom of God.
     
  8. Baptist4life

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    Wow, thanks for the.........:tonofbricks:


    If you'll notice I said, "in my opinion".
     
  9. annsni

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    Yep, that's our guideline. About 1 pastor for every 100 attendees. Most of the time, there are one or two pastors who don't have any "responsibility" (such as doing the prayer, the announcements, teaching the deaf church, teaching a "basics of the faith" class for new believers during one service, leading worship or whatever) so they are around in case something comes up, as often does in a larger church. This was just one example. The pastor who ended up preaching was "off" because he's been busy planning a missions trip to Cuba next month, so he's been really swamped. But he was ready - as God equipped him.

    Understand that our pastors are our "elders". They just happen to be fully paid for by the church. Our church tries to find men and women who are doing a vital ministry in the church and then it tries to be able to pay them to free them from their "tentmaking" so they can do the ministry full-time. In addition to our pastors, we have 2 pastoral interns who are not being paid by the church right now. One most likely never will be because he did very well in his business and is financially well-off and can now serve the church with no financial need. The other has a full-time job but feels called for future ministry and so is getting the training he needs to get there.

    All of our pastors save the senior pastor have been raised up from within the church. All started their ministry as a volunteer, then came on staff as a part time position then eventually became full-time as the need arose. God has always provided financially for us and that's been a great blessing. We are not in debt and we are now looking forward to start a new church (one of the reasons we are so high in numbers of pastors is because of our plan to plant a church in the future and it seems that God has called my own husband to take on that task). Since the church plant will be a second campus of this church, DH will still be on staff but will be working in a second church. So that will mean 10 pastors and 2 pastoral interns for 2 churches. :) My husband will not be the primary preacher but we will use the pastors we have to come and do the preaching. I think it will work well.
     
  10. webdog

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    No, you flat out said that was too many pastors. Your "IMO" was in regards to having what you deem "helpers", which I don't see scripturally accurate, unless this is what you refer to deacons as. The Bible mentions a plurality of elders.

    I'm of the opinion all the elders should be paid (1 Corinthians 9), and what I would disagree with is having a plurality of pastors on staff, and a plurality of volunteer "elders", which most elder led churches use, including mine.
     
    #10 webdog, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2009
  11. Amy.G

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    Do all 9 pastors receive a salary from the church?
     
  12. annsni

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    Yes, all 10 pastors do (I had posted recently that we had 9 but I forgot our newest youth pastor). The two pastoral interns do not pull a salary.

    Understand that we have a staff of 45+ that are paid employees of the church. :)
     
  13. Amy.G

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    How many members do you have?
     
  14. Baptist4life

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    Apparently some of you just like to argue. My post is pretty plain that it was my opinion. Carry on. I'm done with this topic. IN MY OPINION NINE PASTORS ARE TOO MANY.
     
  15. webdog

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    I wasn't arguing, just stating what you wrote that is so visible for anyone to see. I'm glad you clarified for us here, though. I will say opinions without scriptural backing are lacking, though.
     
  16. annsni

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    We run around 800+ on a Sunday plus the deaf church so about another 50. Additionally, we're in the works to plant a church in the next 6 months.
     
  17. annsni

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    Can I ask you about the leadership of your church? Not just how many pastors there are but how many elders and other leaders there are. If you use deacons as elders, include them too. How about other ministry leaders?
     
  18. Aaron

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    If Ann didn't want the judgment of an opposing viewpoint, she could have posted in a fellowship forum.
     
  19. webdog

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    I missed in the OP where she was seeking "judgment of any kind.
     
  20. annsni

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    I was just so pleased with what a ballet it was yesterday. To know this church family - and especially the family that our staff is, it was amazing to see it all go down so flawlessly. The senior pastor wanted to stay to do the message but there was no need - we had enough men who were ready, willing and able to step into the pulpit and give an amazing message, and no one needed to know that anything was wrong. I've seen things like this happen time and time again from funerals when the senior pastor was away to weddings, to just needs of the church family. I feel so blessed to be a part of this congregation! That's why I shared. :)
     

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