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This made me sick!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Jul 15, 2007.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    You asked this:

    I answered. Then I went back and answered the OP.
     
  2. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    No, that is NOT what government is supposed to do. They are ministers of God.
    PLease read Romans 13.
    Then perhaps read Psalm 2.

     
  3. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    You are confusing ancient Israel with the U.S.A. This country isn't a theocracy, but a secular constitutional republic, a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. ALL the people.
     
  4. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    No, it doesn't.
    There is NO God given right to worship idols.
    It is not the governments job to evangelize. It is not their job to force people to pay for churches etc.
    BUt they are just as much subject to God as anyone else.

    The Indiana constitution shows this very well:

    Notice that the all caps "ALMIGHTY GOD is exactly as it is in the INdiana preamble.

    Then we see:

    There is a right to worship ALMIGHTY GOD, not allah or whatever.

    If a person chooses to worship a pagan god privately, there is no civil punishment since it is not the states duty, but the state DOES have a duty to acknowledge the God of the Bible and when it does not, it is in line for God's judgement.
     
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    That would make perfect sense if I said I wonder how many democracies (or constitutional republics), etc. Sorry, but I have no clue where you're coming from.
     
  6. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    No, I am NOT confusing the USA with ancient Isreal.

     
  7. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Sorry, but yes there is. God gives us free will to choose.


    Where in the Constitution of the United States does it prescribe such a duty? Please cite the exact Article. It may be difficult, since the Constitution is a godless document.
     
  8. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    The thing is, it doesn't matter what our form of government is, governments role is the same.

    No matter how it is administered, all government has the same commission from God which is best described in Romans 13.
    And by the way, in case you are not aware, Romans is in the New Testament, not the old.
     
  9. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    God gives a right to serve idols?
    Care to give me scripture on that?

    Yes, the US constitution is a pretty Godless document.
    Most states got it right, but not the US.
    But that doesn't matter.
    The Bible supersedes the US Constitution.
     
  10. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Doesn't look like much of a right to me, does it?
     
  11. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    I think I agree. I guess I don't see how being a constitutional republic plays into our longevity one way or another. If God wants us to self-destruct because we turn from Him, then we'll self-destruct. Being a constitutional republic won't give us extra time or cut our longevity short.
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Not so far as the government goes, which is the point of the discussion. Of course, God's will is ultimately done, but that doesn't mean the civil government must follow any religious dictates. Try stoning an unruly son to death at the gates to the city and then use the Bible as your legal defense. I think you'd be found guilty of murder regardless.
     
  13. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I am not sure what that is referring to?
     
  14. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Magnetic Poles,

    Who said anything about that? We are not giving special status. Anyone can worship however they please in this country. Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc etc.

    But this country was founded on a bedrock that includes an acknowledgment of the christian God as the source of our ultimate national blessing and protection.

    That is undeniable fact.

    When we turn to God good things happen. When we turn from God to false Gods bad things happen.

    That as well is undeniable fact, and multiculturalism will not change it.

    Mike
     
  15. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Mike, that is just not true at all, and calling it "undeniable fact" doesn't make it so. The country was founded on the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence, which is not the foundation of law, references "the laws of nature, and nature's God", not "the Christian God". You are misinformed.
     
  16. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Blackbird,

    The Christian God, the way its been for 200 years now. Not the Muslim God or the Krishna God or the Hindu god of any other false God.

    The TRUE one.

    People can live here and be any of those other religions and they will not be persecuted. They can worship as they please. But if they start with this insanity that they are being supposedly *persecuted* because we dont acknowledge their understanding of God in our governmental meetings or public schools, etc, then we simply tell them...

    "Sorry, but thats because this country is founded on the acknowledgment of the CHRISTIAN understanding of God. You will just have to put up with that if you want to live here. We will never stop you from worshipping as you please at home or in your place of worship, but YOU will have to put up with this arrangement if you want to live here."



    Mike
     
  17. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Which is a direct establishment of religion (Christianity) in violation of the First Amendment. To do what you say, you'd need to repeal the First Amendment. Also, I have a news flash for you...ALL religions think theirs is the "TRUE" God.
     
  18. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    How about THIS solution that has worked well for over 200 years (paraphrasing Mike's comment above):

    People can live here and be any religion and they will not be persecuted. They can worship as they please. But if they start with this insanity that they are being supposedly *persecuted* because we dont acknowledge their understanding of God in our governmental meetings or public schools, etc, then we simply tell them we have no official religion in America. We protect the freedom of all by separating the state from religion.
     
  19. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Magnetic Poles,

    YOU are misinformed. The founding fathers of this country were primarily either christian or christian sympathetic deists.

    They had no intention of having a country of forced christianity. I have never claimed that. But the mindset that existed in these men regarding God was clearly the Christian God.

    If not the bible would not have been given such a prominent role...presidents taking their oath with the hand on it, etc...in the political ceremonies of our governmental meetings.

    If not they would not have allowed for CHRISTIAN PASSAGES OF SCRIPTURE to be CHILSED IN STONE for all time all over these buildings in our capital at Washington DC.

    And its been proven that the basis of so much of our great documents...the constitition and bill of rights...comes straight from principles found in the scriptures of God.

    Not scripture quotations...but the principle ideas have been shown to be drawn from the wisdom and morality found in the Bible.

    Please become better informned.

    Mike
     
  20. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Mike, now you are just embarrasing yourself. If you can find any passages "CHILSED (SIC) IN STONE" it makes no difference...buildings are not the laws. Please put down your David Barton books long enough to read

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

    You will see that the Supreme Court has 18 great lawgivers depicted on the friezes. On the south wall you will find Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, and Octavian; while on the north wall, Justinian, Mohammed, Charlemagne, King John, Louis IX, Hugo Grotius, Sir William Blackston, John Marshall, and Napoleon. According to your logic then, the US is based on Moses, Mohammed, and Confucius among others.

    The buildings in DC were not even there at the nation's founding.

    There is also no requirement to have a President take the oath of office on any book. The phrase "So help me God" is also not part of the oath prescribed in the Constitution, nor is it required. So please, before you type, become better informed.
     
    #40 Magnetic Poles, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2007
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