This Sickness Will Not End In Death...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. In his classic bestseller Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby tells a story of his own daughter's battle with cancer. He said, "As we prayed, a Scripture promise came that we believed was from God... 'This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it' (John 11:4)" (p.190).

    "The Holy Spirit took the Word of God and revealed to us God's perspective on the end result of that circumstance" (p.191).

    2. So a pastor friend and I were talking about this story and to my surprise my friend said that Blackaby misused the verse, because not everyone with cancer is able to survive and tell about it.

    He went onto to say that Lazarus did die, but Blackaby's daughter didn't die and therefore this was a misuse of Scripture.

    3. Is my pastor friend's criticism of Blackaby correct?

    4. Can the Holy Spirit bring a Scripture to us that from a Bible Study standpoint is out of context, and apply it to whatever situation we might be in, as in the case of Henry Blackaby?
     
  2. LeBuick

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    So he believes one must live for God to be glorified???

    We don't always understand what God does, "for his name sake".

    As for the writer, sounds like he was comforted with Gods word (living word I might add) in a normally hopeless situation. How can effective ministry be out of context?
     
  3. Allan

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    I beleive Henry Blackaby used the scripture exactly as God gave him wisdom into his OWN need for understanding into the situation at hand regarding his daughter.
    Though the context was not fitting it's usage regarding teaching nor preaching, the truth is that God used His word to convey the truth of THAT matter to Henry. God has done this at different times in my own life but mine just like Henry's was specific, verifiable, and fulfilled according to that which God revealed. In other words it came to pass in such a manner it is unquestionable as to that which God revealed to that situation, but not in a fashion that should be preached nor taught in scriptural context.

    Does Henry B. teach this promise is to all?
    I wouldn't think he does knowing his theology but I am interested since I guess I read over it.
     
    #3 Allan, Sep 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2007
  4. TCGreek

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    In an effort to safeguard proper interpretation of Scripture within its immediate and broader context, I believe my pastor friend has found himself limiting God own use of Scripture.

    Thanks Allan, for the personal note.
     
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    No, but showing from his own life experience with his daughter, how God can use our situations to reveal His will, so we can experience better.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    I have a friend that read a scripture that she believed with her whole heart was God speaking to her telling her that her friend who had terminal cancer would not die. But she did die. So, I'm not sure how to respond to Blackaby's story of his daughter. I've done the study "knowing God", so I'm familiar with his story.
     
  7. Allan

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    I would ask, "Does God lie?" If she believed with her whole heart God told her something and it did not come to pass, it was not God who told her for He does not lie.

    We use the same criteria that the CHildren of Israel had was told by God to use with Prophets to determine IF they were speaking His Word or using His Name to declare their own words.

    Granted we do not stone people anymore but you can see just how seriously God takes someone claiming to hear from Him and it turn out or not come to pass as they stated the "Lord declared to them".
     
  8. TomMann

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    I was also diagnosed with cancer, inoperable, a few years back. The scripture that came to my mind was,

    Ps 118:17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.

    Keepin in mind the following verse also.....

    18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death.

    Anyone can fee free to agree or disagree with how that verse comforted me as I went thru four weeks of chemo, and six weeks of radiation, gaining 8 pounds in weight and keeping my hair.... Guess what.... I did not die but lived, and like to take every opportunity to declare the works of God..... By his grace!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    Blackaby clearly misued the verse. The verse addressed Lazurus sickness in a particular historical situation. It does not address other historical situations.
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

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    Hey, I agree! As one who spent 3 years in the Charismatic/neo-prophetic movement I am a bit sensitive to these "God told me" testimonies. The way the Lord led me out of that deception was by utter dependence upon the written Word of God and words that are "faithful and true."

    Unless you have been chasing the word of god through so-called prophecy, et. you have no idea what kind of insecurity it produces in a believer. When the Lord brought me to my senses to have a high regard for doctrine, to know by the Scirpture that the Scriptures are profitable for doctrine, and to begin to study the Bible more fervently and exegetically (not just devotionally to get a "word" for my situations) I began to see the errors rampant in the movement I was in.

    When I hear blackaby talking the way he does it gives me concern. The movement I was involved with also had a high regard to Blackaby's Expeiriencing God work and claimed to have a hand in its development.
     
  11. Amy.G

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    I agree with you. It was obviously not God that spoke to her telling her that her friend would live. I think she was just looking for a sign.
    I should have put that in my previous post.
     
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Then you must prove that the Holy Spirit does not, at anytime, use Scripture in the way Blackaby described.
     
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. I understand, but let me paraphrase Augustine, "The abuse of a philosophy does not mean that the philosopy itself is wrong."

    2. RB, I'm sure that you would describe your departure from the Charismatics as a work of the Holy Spirit, revealing and convicting you of truths found in Scripture.

    3. I'm a cessationist at best, but I would not allow this particular stance of mine hinder the work of the Spirit of God.
     
  14. LeBuick

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    These are good words...
     
  15. Allan

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    I understand you as well.
    Though you can not dismiss the truth God gave him (and myself) which came to pass as God revealed in that/those circumstances. NOT to go around and start telling people to "claim this verse and you will not die... or be healed" but that God spoke in a fashion that was not general but specific, verifiable, leading us to an assurance of our Faith in the one who keeps and sustains us, as He declaring to us what is His plan for us (we came closer to Him and not away from Him nor making Him our servant for our biding - see Duet 13).

    I also know a few Calvinists who like "Experiencing God".

    Hey you guys thinks us 'non-cals' are a little odd for enjoying the works of Spurgeon, Gill, Calvin, and others. Since we like them does that mean the Calvinists should be wary of these men :laugh: That is silly I know but just as true.

    I appreciate you brother, and it is your caution that is a great asset, but listen for the intent of what is being said which will help you find WHAT and IF God really was at work with the person.

    (I to came out of the 'Charismatic Chaos' as well)
     
    #15 Allan, Sep 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2007
  16. Allan

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    Blackaby did not find the verse then claim it, so as to make God bound to obey him.

    God revealed THAT PASSAGE to Blackaby regarding GOD'S intent in the situation.
    So it was not Blackaby who misused the verse, but apparently God (if you would venture to dare such an accusation).

    Blackaby is not teaching this as the intenxt nor contextof the text but that which God used to declare what God (not Blackaby) intended to do. That his daughter would live.
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    Why? Nothing in the Bible gives us permission to take a promise for someone else and make it for ourselves. The Holy Spirit is no longer giving revelation. The verse may have been a comfort or encouragement to them, but it was not a "revealing from the Spirit" to them. It was revealed from the Spirit to John to record aobut a particular historical event. That promise is made to no one else specifically.

    Unless you are playing games with the word "revealed" God did not reveal that passage to Blackaby. It was revealed to John. \

    God didn't misuse the verse because God did not reveal it. Think about it. You are assuming that Blackaby is telling the truth, that he actually understands what "revelation" is theologically, and God did this. I don't know which of the three, is false, but at least one of them is.

    Then you admit my positino ... that he is misusing it. You cannot take a verse out of context. A verse has meaning only in the context in which it is found.

    This discussion is about the doctrine of bibliology and revelation. We need, perhaps, to be more clear about what the Bible actually teaches on that. Blackaby is not.
     
  18. Allan

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    On the contrary:
    If God used it to comfort them in any way outside of its context, then God revealed that comfort to them through the scripture declaring Gods intent within that situation.
    How is it comforting unless it reveals that which is unknown to them but known only to God?

    Revelation is primarily defined as:
    1) laying bare, making naked

    2) a disclosure of truth, instruction
    ...a) concerning things before unknown
    ...b) used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto withdrawn from view are made visible to all

    3) manifestation, appearance

    The core truth regarding 'revelation' is - to make known what is unknown, and thus it's different variations of the same meanings.

    Therefore 'he' was not misusing it, as you claim, but it was God who misused it if anyone did since it was God who comforted him and his family by it.

    BTW - God is no longer giving NEW relation as in adding to the scriptures.
    But God is constantly making Himself known to those who do not know Him - This by it's very nature is a revelation of Himself or what we say 'revealing Himself' to them.
     
    #18 Allan, Sep 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2007
  19. swaimj

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    TCGreek said:
    Hey TC, my copy of Experiencing God has only 183 pages. How did you find the quote on page 190? Seriously, I remember this story in his book, but I would like to read it again before I comment on this. Can you correct the page number?
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    That's not revelation, and it is not necessarily God. We simply do not know that.

    It would be comforting in that it reminds us whether in life or death, God is seeking his own glory and that is far more comforting than healing.

    Sounds like we need some remedial education on theological revelation. It is these things, but with more specificity.

    But you don't know that God did it.

    But that's regeneratino or illumination; not revelation. That's why I say we apparently need a remedial course in bibliology and revelation.
     

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