This topic was brought up in the Headcoverings/veilings thread

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dina, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. Dina

    Dina
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    and I thought it would be nice to explore it.

    This is a concept that I just happened upon, and I have never heard of it as being practiced among Christians.

    So, what say ye?

    SOVEREIGN CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE
    Reasons Why Christians Should Not Obtain a State Marriage License
    2.5.1 Reason #1: The definition of a "license" demands that we NOT obtain one to marry

    2.5.2 Reason #2: When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage

    2.5.3 Reason #3: When you marry with a marriage license, you place yourself under a body of law which is immoral

    2.5.4 Reason #4: The marriage license invades and removes God-given parental authority

    2.5.5 Reason #5: When you marry with a marriage license, you are like a polygamist

    2.5.6 When Does the State Have Jurisdiction Over a Marriage?

    2.5.7 History of Marriage License in America

    2.5.8 What Should We Do?

    http://famguardian.org/Publications/SovChristianMarriage/SovChristianMarriage.htm
     
  2. Charles Meadows

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    This is a little out there. There is nothing wrong with a state marriage license. I have one and I have no plans to ever have problems with it. This is like unto silliness!
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    This is like WAY unto silliness. Like the Pharisee on the corner screaming 'look at me!' I'm so Holy!

    I wonder if these same folk pay taxes and record births?

    NOW... this is NOT to be confused with the new Covenant Marriages where people sign EXTRA marriage papers in some states asking that it be made harder for them to divorce. They choose, before marriage, to set some rules about waiting time, counseling, etc. in an effort to discourage 'quick divorces'.

    I'm with you Charles! ONLY death will end my marriage. All else is forgiveable.


    Diane
     
  4. Johnv

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    If you don't obtain a marriage license, the state will not consider you to be married. Imagine the reprocussions: A church that believes in marrying a ten year old girl and a 20 year old man. Should the state be required to sanction that?
     
  5. Dina

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    I agree.

    And to put this a bit more into perspective I will expalain a bit as to why this is even on the board.

    The discussion is obedience.
    Obeying God's commands and obeying the *law of the land*.

    Is it optional to obey the law of the land, when the law of the land requires a marriage license and you feel there is no need for it/feel you have Biblical support for not obeying?

    But I am curious as to how this affects tax filing status??? Anyone know??

    Also, was sharing this info with dh and he asked a question that someone here might know the answer to.
    Most states have it written that after a certain amount of time of shacking up you then become *common-law*. When you are common law are you then able to file joint taxes as married? Would the type of cohabitation as described above then fall under common law after the specified time limit?

    [ February 13, 2004, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Dina ]
     
  6. Headcoveredlady

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    I have not researched this topic so I probably will not participate in this. But, to put a spin on this. In Mass they are fighting to make sodomites and lesbians legally recognized as married by the state.

    Will you who stauchly support marriage licenses also support the marriages of sodomites. It is afterall the law in our land. And we wouldn't want to disobey that now would we?
     
  7. Headcoveredlady

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    If you don't obtain a marriage license, the state will not consider you to be married. Imagine the reprocussions: A church that believes in marrying a ten year old girl and a 20 year old man. Should the state be required to sanction that? </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, come on JohnV haven't you read there are perverts all over trying to legalize this kind of stuff and worse. Then it will be the law of the land. Then it will be ok to you is that right? As long as the state supports it it is fine and dandy with you and the others right?

    How about when Peter was told to stop preaching the gospel. He did not obey them. How about the Chinese Christians should they stop reading their Bibles because the law in China is no Bibles?

    How about the Christians all around who are told by their governments to stop worshipping God, do they obey?
     
  8. Paul of Eugene

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    How could we possibly disobey it? Are we going to storm their apartment and drag them apart, never to live together again? Of course not! Are we free to say homosexuality is a sin? Of course we are! So I'm kind of at a loss to even figure out what "disobeying" that law would MEAN in this context.

    I KNOW! I KNOW! You are an employer and you refuse health insurance to a homosexual "spouse". Is that the kind of disobedience you had in mind? Would it be a comprimise of your christian beliefs to include such a partner in the employee's health insurance benefit package?
     
  9. Johnv

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    Trying and succedding are two different things. How does that change what I stated in my post?


    Huh? I never said that. I was referring to the ridiculous notion that Christians shouldn't be getting marriage licences.

    I think you need to take a breath and calm down. You're yelling at me for things I haven't said, endorsed, or implied...
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    This again - boring and irrelevant, IMHO.
     
  11. dianetavegia

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    Not getting legally married because homosexuals might be allowed to marry legally makes about as much sense as not having children because someone somewhere is going to have an abortion.

    We are told to follow the law. Period. There was no, 'if it suits you' or 'if you agree with it'. As long as it doesn't break GOD'S law, we are to comply and NO WHERE does scripture tell us to not be married legally according to the customs of our land.

    Diane
     
  12. dianetavegia

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    Dina said:
    We have discussed the 'non legal marriage' here before and information about common law marriages was posted. Very few states allow for common law marriage and most that do insist on the couple filing papers to show they consider themselves married. My sister in law has lived with a man for many years. His mother, who is very wealthy, doesn't want him to marry. Cathy had a heart attack and had open heart surgery. The insurance company did some research and discovered they were not 'legally' married and refused to pay her medical bills. She's been paying half the mortgage on his home but if he dies before her, the house goes to others! She can't collect S/S if he's disabled or dies. Illinois doesn't recognize them as married!

    You can just type in Common Law Marriage in your address bar and hit enter to find loads of info on each state.

    Diane
     
  13. Johnv

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    Yes, and the lawhas the right to limit marriage to, say, people of consenting age. We don't seem to have a problem when the law places those limits on it.

    But let's not forget that getting a license to marry is not getting a license to partake in a holy covenant. The state issuing a license is issuing permission to enter into a legal contract. Now, if you want to get married without a license, feel free. But don't expect society to grant you legal spousal rights, such as death or insurance benefits, or community property rights.
     
  14. Scott J

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    Are we?... and if we are, for how long?

    Free speech has already been legally subject to limitations and pro-homosexual groups are already attempting to pass "hate speech" laws.
    Yes it would.

    And beyond that, what about the homeowner who leases the apartment in their basement or the other half of their duplex? A few years ago a court in Mass. ruled that a woman did not have the right to deny a co-habitating couple a rental. There is already a precedent for preventing a person from protecting their family from influence by lifestyles they reject.

    What about the Christian employer who makes personal sacrifices so that his employees and their families have insurance? Why shouldn't their religious views be protected? This isn't like race. Homosexuality, no matter what reason you give for it, is defined by behavior that can be controlled. No one will die without sex...
     
  15. donnA

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    Those who are concerned that the world should see their veil looks christian and obedient to God are living in disobedience becaue of the verses below, which I already posted in the other thread and am reposting here.
    Without those limits it would mean homosexuals should be considered married, and if a 30 year old man wants to marry and 10 year old girl they can and call it common law marriage. When you do away with obedience to God and refuse to follow the laws of our nation you are saying these are acceptable.
    When you aren't legally married, then if you files joint taxes you are breaking more laws, if one spouse dies the other has no legal right to their property,and the state will step in and divide it as they see fit, the father has no legal rights to the children without going to court, in our state he can not make medical choices for them, nor sign anything medical, nor pick them up from school without written permission from the mother.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    There is a movement with ifb-dom to eschew ANY government regulations. Greg Dixon was carried from his church in Indianapolis because they felt they did not have to pay withholding taxes on employees (as the law required).

    Congregation lost the church building.

    Others will not incorporate churches as 501c3 organizations or incorporate as non-profit in their state. Unreal legal problems ensue.

    Romans 13 has been thrown out of the Bible as pastors pick-and-choose what laws to obey and set themselves up as authority over the God-appointed "ministers" of civil government.

    It is humanism and egotism run amok, under the guise of being "spiritual" or "not under bondage" to the state.

    Sin should be decried.
     
  17. Headcoveredlady

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    We have discussed the 'non legal marriage' here before and information about common law marriages was posted. Very few states allow for common law marriage and most that do insist on the couple filing papers to show they consider themselves married. My sister in law has lived with a man for many years. His mother, who is very wealthy, doesn't want him to marry. Cathy had a heart attack and had open heart surgery. The insurance company did some research and discovered they were not 'legally' married and refused to pay her medical bills. She's been paying half the mortgage on his home but if he dies before her, the house goes to others! She can't collect S/S if he's disabled or dies. Illinois doesn't recognize them as married!

    You can just type in Common Law Marriage in your address bar and hit enter to find loads of info on each state.

    Diane
    </font>[/QUOTE]Is Cathy a Christian? Did you choose not to get a marriage license for a reason? Did she have a marriage ceremony in her church or was she fornicating? Why isn't the church supporting her? Where in the Bible did Jesus say born again Christians are entitled to government money? Notice I did not say that Jesus said we should not pay taxes. He did, "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's."
     
  18. dianetavegia

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    Does your husband pay Social Security as is required by LAW? If so, then that money is your money.

    No but Cathy would say she's a Christian because her mother sent her to a class at church when she was 9 and when the class was completed, the children were baptized. The guy's mother doesn't want him to marry. Ever. He stands to inherit a large amount of money when she dies. There was no ceremony. Why should a church support her? She's not a True Widow but a divorced woman living in sin!

    They won't visit us because we won't allow them to sleep together in our home.

    Diane
     
  19. Jim1999

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    In Canada, a Christian couple does not need a licence to marry, if they have their banns published in the church, with at least one partner present, for three successive Sundays. They are then legally married by that minister, who is licenced. The minister must register the wedding.

    Couples living together are deemed to be married after a given length of time (I forget the time span) and they file joint (married) tax returns, enjoy joint ownership and in the case of dissolution, they are equal owners of all properties. So, their legal rights are protected in Canada. This was not always so, but several court battles have won these rights.

    Just to give the Canadian perspective.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  20. Headcoveredlady

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    Does your husband pay Social Security as is required by LAW? If so, then that money is your money.

    No but Cathy would say she's a Christian because her mother sent her to a class at church when she was 9 and when the class was completed, the children were baptized. The guy's mother doesn't want him to marry. Ever. He stands to inherit a large amount of money when she dies. There was no ceremony. Why should a church support her? She's not a True Widow but a divorced woman living in sin!

    Diane
    </font>[/QUOTE]I received the letter from SS that told me the money would be completly gone in about twenty years. We pay SS, federal, state and tax on items we purchase at stores.

    She is divorced also. So, she is actually an adulterer.
     

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