Those that have not heard the Gospel

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by RaptureReady, Feb 27, 2003.

  1. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady
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    Those that have not heard the Gospel when they die today, where is there soul? Is there scripture that I have overlooked concernign this? Any thoughts will help.
     
  2. Scott J

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    Romans 1 says they are without excuse since nature itself should be enough for them to seek God. They are ungodly and unrighteous and therefore will be justly condemned.

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
    24Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
     
  3. Johnv

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    In order to be saved, one must have the be presented the option to choose salvation. If one have never rejected, then how can one be accountable?

    We've already discussed many times on the board the idea that this applies to those who have not reached an age of accountability, or those that are mentally infirmed.

    One could argue that God gives everyone an opportunity. But if we go back to Jesus' life, when would everyone having an opportunity begin? Immediately upon Jesus' resurrection or ascension? What about people in China, for example, in Jesus' time? Were they held accountable immediately? What about Austraila, or North America? Christianity would be unknown to them, in some instances, for hundreds of years.

    Anyway, I think you know where I'm going with that line of thought. One of the problems with the subject is it touches on the nerve of the Calvinist/Arminian debate, which is never ending... [​IMG]
     
  4. Daniel David

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    According to Romans 10:14-17 and 1 Cor. 1:18-21, a person who does not believe in the gospel, he is not saved. Therefore, if he doesn't hear it, he goes to hell without any delay.

    Of course, I expect to see a few bizarre ideas on this thread
     
  5. Doubting Thomas

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    Sorta' like all those folks who lived BEFORE the gospel was ever proclaimed.
     
  6. tyndale1946

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    Well here is one of them Preach the word... What are you going to do with embroys... stillborn... deaf... I have two deaf children... the retarted and those unable to hear the gospel?... Show me one scripture where God saves anyone different then the other one?... Or does God save by special circumstances?... You are a Calvinist that believes in election... Or do you believe that all the elect have to hear the preached gospel to be saved eternally?... I don't and that is a broken cistern that won't hold water!... Spiritual regeneration not gospel because like it or not YOU just condemned those unable to hear like those mentioned above to Hell something our Just, Righteous and Holy God wouldn't do!... Brother Glen :(
     
  7. Alex

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    I'll go a step farther with one of JohnV's comments that follows:

    In order to be saved, one must have the be presented the option to choose salvation. If one have never rejected, then how can one be accountable?

    Does just hearing the word "Jesus" and a brief comment about Him mean that the one who heard this really understands what it is all about? With the many, many religions it may take awhile for one to totally grasp the meaning and then to make a decision and accept Jesus as his/her Savior. Does one become a Math professor by just knowing the answer to one plus one?

    I kow that most Baptist will say that all who haven't heard the Gospel will go to hell and thus the nee to "spread the Word" to all nations.

    I may be a minitority, but I believ that those who haven't heard OR do not yet understand Jesus and die first, will not go to hell BUT may not get ALL the rewards that God offers in Heaven.

    What is the difference with the orginal question and one who receives Christ right before their last earthly breath, like my Father did? Did he(my father), really mean it or was it a last chance shot for eternal life?

    Once saved, can you reject Christ 50 years later and still be saved?

    God Bles............Alex
     
  8. Alex

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    From Strong's Concordance:

    1Co 1:17-25 - Paul had been bred up in Jewish learning; but the plain preaching of a crucified Jesus, was more powerful than all the oratory and philosophy of the heathen world. This is the sum and substance of the gospel. Christ crucified is the foundation of all our hopes, the fountain of all our joys. And by his death we live. The preaching of salvation for lost sinners by the sufferings and death of the Son of God, if explained and faithfully applied, appears foolishness to those in the way to destruction. The sensual, the covetous, the proud, and ambitious, alike see that the gospel opposes their favourite pursuits. But those who receive the gospel, and are enlightened by the Spirit of God, see more of God's wisdom and power in the doctrine of Christ crucified, than in all his other works. God left a great part of the world to follow the dictates of man's boasted reason, and the event has shown that human wisdom is folly, and is unable to find or retain the knowledge of God as the Creator. It pleased him, by the foolishness of preaching, to save them that believe. By the foolishness of preaching; not by what could justly be called foolish preaching. But the thing preached was foolishness to wordly-wise men. The gospel ever was, and ever will be, foolishness to all in the road to destruction. The message of Christ, plainly delivered, ever has been a sure touchstone by which men may learn what road they are travelling. But the despised doctrine of salvation by faith in a crucified Saviour, God in human nature, purchasing the church with his own blood, to save multitudes, even all that believe, from ignorance, delusion, and vice, has been blessed in every age. And the weakest instruments God uses, are stronger in their effects, than the strongest men can use. Not that there is foolishness or weakness in God, but what men consider as such, overcomes all their admired wisdom and strength.

    Arent un-believers, heathens, etc., sinners much the same as we were BEFORE we accepted Christ?

    Where do you get out of this, if they don't HEAR the Word, they go to hell without delay? YES, most who hear and UNDERSTANd what Jesus died for, will never change their mind and go to hell, BUT the OPTION is their's and IS NOT the will of God.

    God Bless............Alex
     
  9. Daniel David

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    Tyndale1946, I am not willing to reject Scripture in favor of your position. If you notice, I presented Scripture. You did not.

    Alex and Tyndale1946, the "hear" that I was speaking of implies both "hearing and obeying". Think with me in regards to many of the Proverbs. "My son, hear my words...". If you have a KJV, it is "hearken".

    Paul commended the believers becuase they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine that saved them.

    The gospel of Christ must be proclaimed to people. Let me put it this way: all people are on the road to everlasting destruction. Only those who believe the gospel of Christ will be saved.

    As for the deaf, Glen, sign language is still a language.

    I am just not willing to rob Christ of his glory by saying that people may be saved apart from faith in him.
     
  10. tyndale1946

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    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a Living Gospel... The life... crucifiction... death... and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the Gospel and the only one that saves eternally... The written gospel tells the child of God what the Lord has done for him personally!... John 5:39 Search the scriptures... For in them ye think ye have eternal life... And they are they which testify of me!

    Speaking of sign language how was a person saved before sign language?... The same way Moses was saved who never heard or read the written gospel... I wanted to clear that up for Doubting Thomas... Jews and Gentiles are all included in unbelief that God might have mercy on all according to Romans 11!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  11. Alex

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    Preach the Word:

    Alex and Tyndale1946, the "hear" that I was speaking of implies both "hearing and obeying". Think with me in regards to many of the Proverbs. "My son, hear my words...". If you have a KJV, it is "hearken".

    Again, to HEAR does not mean understand. If that is the case, all religions would be right IF to hear means to understand. You/they/we, need to KNOW other religions are wrong as well as to UNDERSTAND who Jesus was and that His Word is the only truth. This, to many, does not come after hearing the first sermon about Jesus. Do we all know what every scripture in the Bible means? Do we all understand Revelation? I am not trying to sell Jesus as cheap but I do firmly believe that to accept Jesus "blindly" often is a FALSE belief and many turn away as is evidenced by the thousands who go to a mass gathering to hear about Jeusus, think they understand, only to never return or go to any church. Many Preachers, including ours, calls this a false (not understanding) committment and often these same people come to church later and get re-Baptised, stating that the first was not a real event for them even though, at the time, they thought it was. A lot of this false conviction comes from emotions that many church leadr or Ministers use meaning loud music, etc.. Benny Hinn is a good example of this. Cults are another group that has a false belief in their leaders. Mormons are a good example. They believe iin Jesus, but does this make them saved? No, because they need to understand what He is all about. Most are not evil, just misinformed or brain-washed.

    God Bless...........Alex
     
  12. Daniel David

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    Glen, the Jews were placing their hope literally in the Scriptures. The Scriptures did not die for the sin of all who believe. Jesus did. They were idolatrous of the Scripture. That is why they could not find life in the Scripture. Had they realy believed the Scripture, they would have known to believe in Christ. Alas, they did not and sought to establish their own righteousness.

    People have always been saved the same way: by grace, through faith, in the Messiah (Christ). Paul argues from Romans that both Abraham (pre-law) and David (law) were saved the exact same way.

    Paul asks the question: to whom does God impart righteousness and how? Answer: to him who does not work but believes God, who justifies the ungodly. Do you understand the significance? God declares righteous the believing sinner.

    I am not willing to disagree with Paul just to agree with primitive theology.

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe, to the Jew first and also to the greek."

    I agree with Paul, why don't you?
     
  13. Harald

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    Although I do not agree with you, PTW, on justification, I would sort of side with you in that I do not believe like Glen as for now respecting the Gospel reaching the elect. I would like to see some more or less clear Scripture to back up the notion that some elect and redeemed sinners are regenerated in time but then left for many years in a regenerate state yet unconverted Gospel-wise, even until the point of physical death. This seems to me to be the notion of quite a few of those calling themselves Primitive Baptists. Some of them may say professing Roman Catholics (just an example) are regenerate but just "a bit ignorant" of the truth or the Gospel. Some Primitive Baptist has said he regards the Roman Catholic church a Christian denomination, yet that the adherents are poorly taught the Christian faith, loosely citing him. Does the Bible back up such notions, I ask of Glen and others representing the Primitive Baptists?

    Harald
     
  14. rsr

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    IMHO, the Primitive Baptist conception of election is the only one that makes sense.
     
  15. tyndale1946

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    There are many of Gods children who are enemies of the gospel but they are still elect and beloved of the Father... Romans 11 states nothing less... You say its your faith in Jesus Christ that saves you... I say it's the Faith Of Jesus Christ that saves you... There is a difference!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  16. Frogman

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    Either way you look at it, it is Spiritual regeneration. Man does not preach the Gospel, but speaks it only as the Spirit gives him utterance. Otherwise, man can speak truth from the Word of God, but if the Spirit preaches not in him, even proclaiming the Gospel, none will be able to hear it.

    Of ten children in my grandfather's family six of them were deaf and each one came to the knowledge of their savior.

    Whether we like to admit it or not, it was the Spirit that sent Phillip to the Ethiopian, the Spirit that gives the lead of where and when to preach the Gospel.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  17. Johnv

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    That's a good step. We're commanded to spread the Gospel. I think we tend to think that the Gospel is everywhere. I know several people who, before becoming Christians, would drive by churches, see movies about Jesus, etc, and they didn't have a clue who Jesus was. They never heard the Gospel, even though you'd think it was "all around them". Kinda like saying I know Confucious because I read a fortune cookie.

    What it comes down to as a believer is this: We want to think the Gospel is all over them place so that way we don't have to work as hard to spread it. But, in reality, if my neighbor dies never having heard the Gospel, is it his fault, or mine?

    Another point on that. Me telling someone about Jesus is not the same as them hearing the Gospel. A person is more likely learn more about Jesus by seeing how you live your life, instead of how fast your gums move.
     
  18. Pete Richert

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    So, for those who believe that those who don't hear the gospel are going to heaven, wouldn't you wish to put a stop to all missionary effort. Missions have been going on in Tunesia (sp?) for some time, and now about 0.02% are believers. What a crime we have committed, for before all 100% were going to heaven, and now 99.98% are going to hell!
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    I am from the Primitive Baptist... We are what I call altered Calvinist... We believe that all Gods children... From the cradle to the grave... Somewhere where life begins and when life ends... All Gods children... All Gods Elect... All Jesus Christ's sheep... "SHALL BE ETERNALLY SAVED" ... I shall feed them as Jesus commanded Peter to do three times... Those who see it different fine... But this is the way I see it!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  20. RaptureReady

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    Thanks for the replies everyone. I had Romans in mind, but wanted to hear some other ideas. I think I will stick with what Romans says.
     

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