Those who have never heard the gospel?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jkdbuck76, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,262
    Likes Received:
    64
    What happens to those who have never heard the gospel?

    Say I grew up in the Andes mountains 1,500 years ago.

    When I die, do I go to hell? Will I be sent to the Lake of Fire?


    I need input....
     
  2. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    You start of with a false premise that there are those who haven't or will never hear the Gospel and go from there. Given the false premise, your question cannot be answered.

    It's like saying, since there was life on Mars, what kind of life do you think there was?

    Welcome to the BB, btw!
     
  3. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I supose if they lived an absolute perfect life, never sinned, was not born sinful, and were just like Jesus..... they could be saved. Do you know of any other than Jesus?

    Seriously, according to the bible they would be lost. There is no other name under heaven in which a person must be saved....... Jesus.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    According to most on this board, yes you will.
     
  5. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Can you explain why you say he started off with a false premise ?
    Has everybody heard the gospel ?
     
  6. Rex77

    Rex77
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    2
    Romans.1
    19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
     
    #6 Rex77, Jan 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2007
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    I suppose this was meant to be an answer both to the OP and to me. Is the gospel the fact that there is a Creator ? As for the Hebrews 11:6 quote I ask the same question, well, almost the same question, that Paul asks in Romans.

    How can they know, except someone tell them.

    As for the gospel, isn't it the good news that God has provided salvation for sinners ? So where does this equate with knowing that there is a Creator ? Creator and Savior do not have the same meaning, do they.

    The remotest tribe has a god they worship, and which they look to as creator.
     
  8. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    God puts within all of us a knowledge of a Higher Being. In other words He shows them a little Light. If they reach for that Light, He will show them more of Himself. Nothing is too hard for God. He will not condemn anyone who has never had the opportunity to know Him. He will somehow teach them what they need to know to have access to heaven.
     
  9. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen Jon. I would explain it this way: God has absolute knowledge (we call it foreknowledge, foresight, prescience). God knows all actual and possible actions, thoughts, and outcomes. Because God knows the fullest intent and actions both real and potential he knows all who will respond given the opportunity, thereby providing the opertunity.

    The God of the Bible is a just and fair God. He is not one that arbitrarily picks and chooses and sends all else to hell. All those that God knows will believe will hear the gospel. They are not forced to believe, they are not regenerated then infused with faith and thereby forced to believe, all are saved because they freely believed.

    Gordon
     
  10. examiningcalvinism

    examiningcalvinism
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gordon

    I want to develop one of your points concerning omniscience:

    Turn to Matthew 11:20-24 and there you will see that God's knowledge extends beyond what comes to pass. God knows what would and could happen, though never will happen, but accepts His knowledge as admissible evidence in the future court of God on Judgment Day.

    God knows what you could and would do, from an infinite number of variables: “No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.” (1st Corinthians 10:13) How does God know what you are able to handle? He knows more than just what you WILL do, but what you COULD do. God is a being of infinite understanding: “Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.” (Psalm 147:5)
     
  11. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    jkd,

    As you can see, you've "nonplussed" many at this board. :laugh: But your premise is true. Many have never heard. Congrats for offering the obvious question!

    Man is required to believe the God that is revealed to them -- true God, of course, Rom 1. But Romans 1 doesn't deal with the positive -- those who believe in the God of creation. Scripture promises that those who receive light will be given more light. Those who accept the light will be JUSTIFIED (given the righteousness of God) as were the OT saints. They will be resurrected postrib in "the resurrection of the just" to see Jesus face to face and receive Him.

    Remember, God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come unto repentance. He's not going to condemn those who are trying to find Him and who receive what they know into their lives.

    skypair
     
  12. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    You got it!! God bless. :D

    skypair
     
  13. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    You get 2nd prize. Calvinists explain that infants who would have believed are saved because God knows who would have believed. That isn't good enough cause ALL will bow before the throne of Christ believing -- even if it isn't until after they die (Luke 16) or at the GWT (Rev 20:11). Everyone will believe but God accepts those who trust Him during this life.

    skypair
     
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 1 and 2 provide us the answer to the OP.

    First, everyone can see the creation, which suggests the existence of a creator.

    Jon-Marc has it partly right. If people will follow the light they have, God will give them more light. He also has it partly wrong that God will not condemn those who have never heard the gospel. The basis for that condemnation follows shortly.

    It comes in Romans 2:14-15. Earlier, Paul reminded us that the Jews has the Law, a direct revelation from God.

    He points out that the gentiles don't have the Law,but have something else: the law written on their hearts. In other words, an awareness that some things are right and wrong. Paul says then, "they are a law unto themselves."

    Paul means that they have some kind of moral code, based on their conscience. It is by that moral code they will be judged. Their problem is that they can't even keep their own moral code perfectly. That will be the basis for their condemnation.

    When you think about it, all of us, Jews and Gentiles have the same problem. Whatever Law (or law) we are under, we break it. And James said breaking one point of the law is the same as breaking all of it.

    That is why we need Jesus. We are all condemned, and God would be just in his judgment, whether one hears the gospel or not.

    To hold that every human being in history has had access to the gospel is at best wishful thinking and at worst, denying the obvious.

    Jon-Marc, if God will somehow, someway, teach them what they need to know to have access to heaven, I vote we bring all our missionaries home. God doesn't need them.
     
  15. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    NO---they cannot be saved!!! Every person who has ever been born has been born into sin---they have been---so to speak---born dead!!! Everyone except the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

    We are not born righteous----we are "born again" righteous with the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ being imputed to us.

    Those who have never heard the gospel of salvation--die and go to hell just like those who have heard but have refused!!
     
  16. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    To apply the Arminian foreseen faith idea to the OP question:

    If God foresees who will have saving faith and who won't, then what's the point of sending the gospel to those who won't anyway? A complete waste of time.

    Well, you say, then God wouldn't be fair.

    Boy, am I glad that God's not fair. I'm glad he was merciful instead. If God was fair, he'd treat everybody the same, and send us all to Hell.
     
  17. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    The biblical truth is that they are already lost, and not because God is unfair or cruel, but because man in Adam sinned and earned eternal damnation.

    It is only the grace of God that imparts saving grace to some, as His choice.

    Foreknowledge is a natural attribute of an eternal God, it is not the factor in choosing who will be saved.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. examiningcalvinism

    examiningcalvinism
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim

    Jim,

    What is the "factor" in God's choosing of who will be saved?
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    EC , your god is weak . He only knows an infinite number of contingencies . Are you and others here afraid of saying that God decrees , declares , determines and appoints ? Fear not, it is true . May the God of the Bible break forth into your being .
     
    #19 Rippon, Jan 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2007
  20. examiningcalvinism

    examiningcalvinism
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rippon

    Rippon,

    I believe in a God who "works" all things after the counsel of His own will, but I'm not so sure about it meaning that God determines all things after the counsel of His own will.

    I believe in decrees, and that foreknowledge is a part of them. (Acts 2:23) :thumbs:
     

Share This Page

Loading...