Those Who Went Out

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Jul 26, 2003.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
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    1 John 2:19

    They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


    Did those who were believed to be followers of God, but really weren't know that they really weren't?
     
  2. Me2

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    tuor,

    they were saved as in that they are insiminated with and carrying the spirit of Christ.
    the holy spirit was teaching them about who God is.

    when it came time to test their FAITH..they feared the love of God was adequate to keep them safe and reverted back to operating under the guidance of the Flesh..the spirit of antichrist.

    fearing God in a sense that God is Love..the moment that love was tried..(remember tried by fire)..well, here fire is persecution of others towards the fledgling believer beliefs that forgiving others is the correct doctrine and nature of Christ..
    they refuse to believe that forgiving others is what God desires and command us to do.

    remember the commandment Love God, Love Man.

    these are believers, although acting like carnal babies rather than spiritual babies. carnal children as opposed to spiritual children.

    they have the anointing of God within them. unfortunately it isnt flowing through them by their very unbelief that that is who God is and Does.

    and yet their distrust of Gods system of Justice appears inadiquate so that they imagine a new christ. one that his followers has to earn their salvation by acheiving and doing...instead of accepting something that is already free.

    like forgiveness. and mercy.

    and until these "believers" lose the fear of Gods love and understand that is the method that God has chosen for their Life. They will exist in a battle for the control of their will. its Law against Grace.

    Me2
     
  3. Eladar

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    I would appreciate it if this thread did not turn into a Universal Salvation thread.
     
  4. DHK

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    Yes, they knew that they were saved. Paul addresses the problem of false teachers (and thus their followers) in many books--Galatians, 1 and 2 Corinthians. Peter addresses them; so does Jesus in Mat.7, and Jude in the book of Jude.

    Jude
    17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
    19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
    20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

    In this passage the ones who separated themselves (from the church, the believers), are carnal, do not have the Holy Spirit (are not saved), are mockers, walk after their own ungodly lusts.

    The picture is clear. They left because they were not saved in the first place.
    DHK
     
  5. Eladar

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    DHK,

    If this is true, then why did John write "for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us"? In order for them to continue, they must have at one time been with them.

    According to John, the way that these people could be discerned was by the fact that they left. There is no other distinction made.
     
  6. DHK

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    The "if" is a hypothetical. If they had continued then we would have known that they were true believers. The first epistle of John gives one a number of evidences of their salvation. This is one of them--continuance. A true believer will continue in the faith. John knew they were not true believers (just as Jude did), because they did not continue in the faith.
    DHK
     
  7. Eladar

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    My question remains. Do those who end up no continuing know from the beginning that they were not 'true believers'?
     
  8. donnA

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    My question remains. Do those who end up no continuing know from the beginning that they were not 'true believers'? </font>[/QUOTE]I think some unbelievers who are looking, acting chritain honestly believe they are christians.
     
  9. Eladar

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    If some are being duped, then isn't it possible that any one of us could just be fooling ourselves?
     
  10. ColoradoFB

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    Tuor, for once, I agree with you! [​IMG]
     
  11. Eladar

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    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
     

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