thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself:

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Jan 6, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    One of the sins of the unsaved in OT Israel was they sinned because they had a wrong view and knowledge of God. This is described by the psalmist in this verse from psalm 50;
    21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence;

    thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself:

    but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

    Some do not take verses like this to heart and take it as a light thing....look at this which was recently posted-

    This kind of evil speaking has no place on a christian forum. Such language is blasphemous and needs to be repented of.This is taking God's name in vain and there is no excuse for this at all.

    It continues here....

    So according to this foul post....Eternal God must do whatever this poster thinks he should [regenerate every man} or He is not sincere,as if any man can call God into question.
    This poster speaks of the infinite God as if he was a mere man who the poster could correct on many things.

    No doubt the poster would try and explain this odious post as....just describing the God Calvinists worship.
    This will not work unless the poster wants to deny that Calvinists worship the true and living God...so the poster is without excuse.

    Again..excessive hubris in seeking to dictate to God what the poster thinks is acceptable,and then describing human carnal motives to the Holy immutable God.Horrible....:tear:

    Do you believe God takes this language seriously, or does He just...wink at it?
     
    #1 Iconoclast, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  2. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #2 Inspector Javert, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    Inspector Javert
    So...the good inspector seeks to defend the indefensible....let's see what you have got:thumbsup:

    Your misunderstanding of the biblical doctrine and the biblical God does not prove the point you suggest...

    Taking God's name in vain is very evil.That is why it is one of the TEN Commandments...to speak of God as if He was a mere man is wicked.

    maybe more repenting of such evil speaking.

    Well..as you have no point to make..of course..the cal must be so arrogant..but keep in mind it is not the cal blaspheming God's name.

    I have no given my "particular take on theology at all.I speak of millions who have seen the same truths and put it in confessions of faith.Trying to twist it to me giving my take...is bizarre on your part.
    .

    You are bearing false witness here...you cannot show this from anything i posted here...just the foaming of your unsanctified imagination.

    ,

    I answer questions concerning this historic system all the time, it does not belong to me
    ....An attack against the biblical God is not to be tolerated however.

    the language used by this poster and others bring the charater of a Holy God into question is evil...you cannot explain it away with your verbiage.
    Arrogance is you defending blasphemy and trying to blame Calvinism for the sorry posting.

    here now you link arms with those who want to blame God, or correct God.You take the wrong premise offered by the errant poster ,and now want God to answer to you....
    God suggests the time will come when he will answer;

    21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

    22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

    23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

    Scripture declares what God cannot do;
    Titus 1:2
    In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    This idea itself is completely sub-biblical and betrays defective ideas of the true and Living God.

    Calling someones theology into question in a biblical fashion is one thing..to openly blaspheme God is quite another. that was clearly stated in the post and has been many times before.

    ..
    this evil suggestion is a product of your own mind...I have not done so.

    another sad attempt to deflect from the issue at hand....your whole post is from your imagination and speculation...but you address everything but the real issue...

    Any poster who suggests such foolishness needs to stop posting and study God's holy attributes and stop inflicting these gross ideas on everyone.

    You can say whatever you want...you will not find me , or any biblical cal posting such wicked ideas about God.....[A Phoney, a monster, a liar,etc}

    this is an open forum...anyone can offer correction...biblical correction at any time. I would welcome any correction that is bible based and accurate. certainly if I blasphemed the biblical God...I would like to think that many would rise up and confront me if I did such a thing.

    I do not see you offer one word to this errant posting, in fact you link arms with it!



    If you would confess that Cals worship the same God....then your angst should be against anyone who uses this language to attempt to denigrate those who worship Him.

    There is no attempt to correct anyones take...it was speaking in reference to God. Read it again....blaming it on the cals is just an excuse.

    this is like when i speak with unsaved people out here on the road, who make the statement......I could never worship a God who sends men to hell, or destroyed the world by flood.....I see no difference with someone who mocks election and and passing over others according to his Holy and Wise purpose...think about it.

    Cals do not say He is....the poster suggests it, based on his defective views which are many.

    again..a weak attempt to defend the indefensible....

    while not guilty of this sin...i am guilty of many others which My Great High Priest has taken away in His perfect Covenant death for All the Father has given to Him;
    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
     
  4. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  5. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Icon,

    Try to think reasonable for a moment. (I know you can) You and many others come here looking for theological fist fights (Everyone thinks that they are defending "the truth) Emotional ranting based on one another's posts and positions result in charges of heresy and blasphemy.

    YOU are loved, appreciated and respected, but remember, certain "pet statements" and ways of expressing positions stimulates visceral theological responses.

    You and I both know, this and similar debates will go on for another 4 centuries. All the while, people (irresistibly chosen or not) will not benefit from our battles of pride to prove one another wrong, or ourselves correct.
     
  6. prophet

    prophet
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,037
    Likes Received:
    2
     
  7. prophet

    prophet
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,037
    Likes Received:
    2
    You have no idea what "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain" means. The JW's would at least get His name right: "Jehovah ".
    My wife understands it, she took my name.
    Agur understood...that to be poor and steal, when you called yourself a follower of Providence, would be the true violation of this commandment.

    Me thinks thou hast inherited the evil spirit of the followers of the great Whore, through her harlot Reformed children.
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    No one is denying the attributes of God or that which makes God to be God. The issue is over God's purposes not His Person. So to speak of the God of the Calvnists or the God of the Arminians is really unnecessary rhetoric that creates more heat than light. Don't you think?
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    quantumfaith
    Hello QF:wavey:
    I would prefer biblical discussion:thumbsup:

    Yes....that is why going into the new year I wanted to call attention to what I believe to be a serious issue.

    Yes.....I knew when I posted this might be the case.It was hard for me to restrain myself and hold back from my disdain of these kind of remarks.i do not think I was vague on this:wavey:

    I view it not so much as a debate as it is growing in knowledge.Each person is at different stages of growth.....some flat out rebel and resist truth.

    This kind of unfortunate thread is not designed as much for that,as it is to call attention to this issue.:wavey:
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    prophet

    this is not the issue of the OP.

    Well now..let's take a look...here is my friend Thomas Watson to help you;
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    pt2;
     
    #11 Iconoclast, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    pt3;
    A woman told her dying husband, that of her three sons, only one of them was his. The father dying, desired the executors to find out which was the true natural son, and bequeath all his estate to him. The father being dead, the executors set up his corpse against a tree and delivered to each of these three sons a bow and arrows, telling them, that he who could shoot nearest the father's heart should have the whole of the estate. Two sons shot as near as they could to his heart—but the third felt nature so to work in him, that he refused to shoot; whereupon the executors judged him to be the true son, and gave him all the estate. Such as are the true children of God, fear to shoot at him; but such as are bastards, and not sons, care not though they shoot at him in heaven—with their oaths and curses! That which makes swearing yet more heinous, is, that when men have resolved upon any wicked action, they bind themselves with an oath to do it. Such were those who bound themselves with an oath and curse to kill Paul. Acts 23:12. To commit sin is bad enough; but to swear to commit sin—is a high profanation of God's name, and as it were, calls God to approve our sin!

    (3) PERJURY, which is a heaven-daring sin. "You shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shall you profane my name." Lev 19:12. Perjury is calling God to witness to a lie. It is said of Philip of Macedon, he would swear and unswear, as might stand best with his interest. "You shall swear—in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness." Jer 4:2. In righteousness, therefore, it must not be an unlawful oath. In judgment therefore it must not be a rash oath. In truth, therefore, it must not be a false oath. Among the Scythians, if a man perjured himself, he was to have his head stricken off; because, if perjury were allowed, there would be no living in a commonwealth; it would take away all trust and truth from among men. The perjurer is in as bad a case as the witch; for, by a false oath, he binds his soul fast to the devil.

    In taking a false oath in a court, there are many sins linked together—many sins in one; for, besides taking God's name in vain, the perjurer is a thief; by his false oath he robs the innocent of his right; he is a perverter of justice; he not only sins himself—but occasions the jury to give a false verdict, and the judge to pass an unrighteous sentence. Surely God's judgments will find him out! When God's flying-sroll, or curse, goes over the face of the earth, into whose house does it enter? "I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of him who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in his house and destroy it, both its timbers and its stones." Zech 5:4. Beza relates of a perjurer, that he had no sooner taken a false oath, than he was immediately struck with apoplexy, never spoke more, and died. Oh, tremble at such horrid impiety!

    [8] We take God's name in vain, when we prefix God's name to any wicked action. Mentioning God in connection with a wicked design, is taking his name in vain. "I pray," said Absalom, "let me pay my vow, which I have vowed unto the Lord, in Hebron." 2 Sam 15:7. This pretense of paying his vow made to God, was only to cover his treason. "As soon as you hear the sound of the trumpet you shall say, Absalom reigns!" chapter 15:10. When any wicked action is baptized with the name of religion, it is taking God's name in vain. Herein the Pope is highly guilty, when he sends out his bulls of excommunication, or curses against the Christian; he begins with, "In the name of God." What a provoking sin is this! It is to do the devil's work—and put God's name to it!

    [9] We take God's name in vain, when we use our tongues any way to the dishonor of God's name. As when we use railing, or curses in anger; especially when we wish a curse upon ourselves if a thing is not so, when we know it to be false. I have read of one who wished his body might rot, if that which he said was not true; and soon after his body began to rot, and he became a loathsome spectacle.

    [10] We take God's name in vain, when we make rash and unlawful vows. It is a good vow, when a man binds himself to do that which the word binds him to; as, if he is sick, he vows if God restores him, he will live a more holy life. "I will pay you my vows which my lips have uttered when I was in trouble." Psalm 66:13, 14. But "such a vow should not be made, as is displeasing to God;" as to vow voluntary poverty, as friars; or to vow to live in nunneries. Jephthah's vow was rash and unlawful; he vowed to the Lord to sacrifice that which he met with next—and it was his own daughter! Judges 11:31. He did bad to make the vow, and worse to keep it; he became guilty of the breach of the third and sixth commandments.

    [11] We take God's name in vain, when we speak evil of God. "The people spoke against God." Numb 21:5.

    How do we speak against God?

    When we murmur at his providences, as if God had dealt harshly with us. Murmuring accuses God of injustice. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" Gen 18:25. Murmuring springs from a bitter root, it comes from pride and discontent; it reproaches God and thus takes his name in vain. It is a sin which God cannot bear. "How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me?" Numb. 14:27.

    [12] We take God's name in vain, when we falsify our promise. As when we say, if God spares our life we will do a certain thing, and never intend to do it. Our promise should be sacred and inviolable; but, if we make a promise, and mention God's name in it—but never intend to keep it, it is a double sin; it is telling a lie, and taking God's name in vain.

    Use. Take heed of taking God's name in vain in any of these ways. Remember the threatening in the text, "The Lord will not hold him guiltless." Here is a meiosis—less is said, and more intended. "He will not hold him guiltless;" that is, he will be severely avenged on such a one! "The Lord will not hold him guiltless." Here the Lord speaks after the manner of a judge, who holds the court. The judge here, is God himself; the accusers, Satan, and a man's own conscience; the charge is, "Taking God's name in vain." The accused is found guilty, and condemned: "The Lord will not hold him guiltless."

    Methinks these words, "The Lord will not hold him guiltless," should put a lock upon our lips, and make us afraid of speaking anything that may bring dishonor upon God, or may be taking his name in vain! It may be, that men may hold such guiltless—when they curse, swear, speak irreverently of God. If one takes away another's good name, he shall be sure to be punished; but if he takes away God's good name, where is he who punishes him? He who robs another of his goods shall be put to death—but he who robs God of his glory, by oaths and curses, is spared! But God himself will take the matter into his own hand—and he will punish him who takes his name in vain!

    (1) Sometimes God punishes swearing and blasphemy in THIS life. In the county of Samurtia, when there arose a great tempest of thunder and lightning, a soldier burst forth into swearing; but the tempest tore up a great tree by the root, which fell upon him, and crushed him to pieces. German history tells of a youth, who was given to swearing, and inventing new oaths; the Lord sent a cancer into his mouth, which ate out his tongue and from which he died. If a man blasphemed God, the Lord caused him to be stoned to death. "The Israelite woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And Moses spoke to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him who had cursed, and stone him with stones!" Lev. 24:11, 23. Olympias, an Arian bishop, reproached and blasphemed the sacred Trinity; whereupon he was suddenly struck with three bolts of lighting, which burned him to death. Felix, an officer of Julia, seeing the holy vessels which were used in the sacrament, said, in scorn of Christ, "See what precious vessels the Son of Mary is served with." Soon after, he was taken with vomiting of blood from his blasphemous mouth, of which he died.

    (2) If God should not execute judgment on the profaners of his name in this life, their doom is to come. He will not remit their guilt—but deliver them to Satan the gawler, to torment them forever. If God justifies a man—who shall condemn him? But if God condemns him—who shall justify him? If God lay a man in prison, where shall he get bail? God will take his full blow at the sinner in hell! "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!" Heb 10:31.


    [/QUOTE].................Maybe you could correct my friend Mr.Watson....we will wait for your fine presentation.
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  13. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was the one who said the God of Calvinism is a phony, and I stand by my words. He calls people to repent KNOWING they are unable to do so (according to Calvinism, not the Bible) and then condemns them for being unable to do what he knows they are unable to do. He could regenerate them if he chose to do so, but he passes them by. Then he sends them to hell to glorify himself.

    This is not the God of the Holy Bible, this is the God of Calvinism, they are not the same.

    Actually, the God of Calvinism is far worse than that, he condemns men for some mysterious unknown reason. It is not because men are sinful, because his election is UNCONDITIONAL. Sin is just a convenient reason to send men already predestined to hell before they could ever do good or bad.

    I am not blaspheming the true God, the true God of the Bible loves all men and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    Inspector Javert
    The OP dealt with God and His character being blasphemed....not me, or my theology although you cling to this notion....in vain:thumbsup:

    good...then you should be able to see that the OP addressed a poster suggesting this very thing.


    show this from the language quoted in the op.

    This as has been pointed out is your twist and diversion.It was speaking about God....very clearly...not theological systems.The poster was saying he would not believe in the God as described by Calvinism.

    .
    You have never heard my particular take ...have you? the thread is not about me however even though you try to make it so....nice try:laugh:

    You sound more desperate now...:laugh:

    repeating your error only buries you here...i can see you are frustrated.
    I was not the subject of the OP...are you fixated on me????lol.

    You have finally got something correct!!! good boy.

    Saying God is a liar, a phony, or insincere , and mutable is however...you should be able to see this concept.


    Is this what they call a red herring????lol

    .

    read the OP again...
    stick to the OP....


    Well here it is...you show your errant theology and horrendous view of God here.
    Yes...you also take God's name in vain:thumbsup:
    Not the OP...try and focus
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    272
    Wow, Winman was my first guess and I was right.

    Go for it Winman, solve the world's problems, stamp out them ol' evil sneaky conniving Calvinists! I want to laugh, but in reality it's a sickness.
     
  16. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    You get much smarter and you are liable to become a non Cal. :thumbsup:

    Some things like a bad rash are difficult to get rid of.
     
  17. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #17 Inspector Javert, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  18. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are not alone. In fact, arrogant is an understatement. Calvinism has a reputation for arrogance, must be that I AM ELECT stuff, seems to go to the head for some.

    You are doing a terrific job, and I am enjoying your posts immensely. I hope Iconoclast will continue to try to misrepresent my posts so you can refute him. It's a good show.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    Sure.....you publically violate the commandment, but both you and Winman own up to it...admitting it. Knowing that you have sinned is the first step to seeking to repent:thumbs::applause: Not right now...but if God grants you repentance.....look at Paul's testimony;


    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

    13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.


    take some time to work through the fine study by Thomas Watson posted here...do not continue in this ignorance....blaming God, openly bearing false witness against me.....repent of this sin and seek the Lord on this matter.:thumbs:
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    Winman



    I do not have to mis-represent your posts...I just need to post your own words you discredit yourself-:wavey: look;
    ,

    At least you admit it...so eventually you can repent of this.
    very sad...but it reveals who you are and why you have this hatred for God.

    Yes God calls all men everywhere to repent

    men are responsible...God does not prevent them...sin does.

    .
    they are justly condemned for sin and unbelief.you of course deny all of these truths.

    ,

    No...He has already planned and purposed to save a multitude...no more and no less.He will save all He can wisely and justly save.

    I trust God in this...you deny Gen 18:25

    I trust the biblical God will do right...you do not...you blame him and find fault with Him.


    Sure it is. There is only One God.

    This rash statement shows why you never come to truth....

    ,

    More evil speaking and hatred of God.
    No..it is revealed from heaven since the fall...all sinned in Adam-
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    you are a truth suppressor.every post every day.

    This wicked objection is covered by Thomas Watson ;
    maybe you missed it:laugh:
    [11] We take God's name in vain, when we speak evil of God. "The people spoke against God." Numb 21:5.

    How do we speak against God?

    When we murmur at his providences, as if God had dealt harshly with us. Murmuring accuses God of injustice. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" Gen 18:25. Murmuring springs from a bitter root, it comes from pride and discontent; it reproaches God and thus takes his name in vain. It is a sin which God cannot bear. "How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me?" Numb. 14:27.

    [8] We take God's name in vain, when we prefix God's name to any wicked action. Mentioning God in connection with a wicked design, is taking his name in vain.
    Sure you are and will find this out sooner or later....


    Only a god of your imagination might do this...but the biblical God does not do this.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...