Thought this was interesting....

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by mjohnson7, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. mjohnson7

    mjohnson7
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    Looking at the faculty of Regent University Divinity School....and noticed something. This prof. received her BA from Baptist Christian College. Wasn't that the previous of name of Louisiana Baptist University? Comments?? (BTW....I'm definitely pro RA accreditation)


    http://www.regent.edu/acad/schdiv/faculty_staff/faculty/crabtree.cfm
     
  2. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Bro. Johnson Response

    Hello Bro. Johnson,

    You are probably right. Someone who knows about the part of the world could come on and tell us if you remember correctly.

    Sometimes what happens is this: a person goes to a small independent Bible college or "school" which is not accredited, wants to go to an RA or ATS college or seminary for an accredited degree, and the receiving institution will put them on academic probation for a semester or a year or some such to see if they can do the work.

    I am a mentor/Adjunct Faculty member with Columbia Evangelical Seminary. That is what happens with some of our grads. Generally other institutions have allowed our grads to come in and they can do the work handily. See the web page for these testimonials.

    Then they come off the probation and all is well. All is well that is; until someone like you reads their academic vitae or credentials.:laugh:

    That could be what happened in their case.?!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  3. mjohnson7

    mjohnson7
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    Rhet,

    I am sure you're correct in that they were received on probation....at least that is what I was assuming. As far as academic credentials, the first thing I read of an academic catalog is the faculty credentials. Kinda nerdy huh! However, that little thing can "usually" tell you a lot!

    I just thought I would "stir the pot", so to speak, since the accreditation topic is so hot on the board!!

    God bless!

    Matt
     
  4. UZThD

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    teacher credential program in the Univ of San Diego,

    ===

    My BA is from an unaccredited Bible college (now TRACS), yet in the 1960s it :

    (1) enabled me to enter an accredited MA in Theology at what now is Point Loma Nazarene,

    (2) enabled me to enter a 45 sem hour accredited teacher credential progran at USD,

    (3) and over a 35 year period four public school districts paid my salary based on that UA BA.

    This is not a recommendation for anyone getting UA degrees which often are done in substandard schools and lack utility!
     
    #4 UZThD, Jan 18, 2007
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  5. Martin

    Martin
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    First, I agree with everything Rhet said about this. So, I suppose, whatever else I say is just repeating Rhet.

    Second I would point out that this lady does hold a diploma from San Francisco Theological Seminary which is accredited. If she earned that after her BA that may have helped her enter the MA program at Regent.

    Third there are alot of people who attend unaccredited Bible colleges (etc) who get into large seminaries (such as SEBTS). In fact, talking about Southeastern, one of my friends started their MDiv program before finishing his BA degree at Campbell University. In fact I am not sure he ever did finish his BA at Campbell University. He was several years older than I so he was around thirty when he entered SEBTS and I believe he was accepted on academic probation for at least one semester. I am also aware of people who have graduated from a small unaccredited Bible college, Carolina Bible College, that have gone on to enter Southeastern and Dallas Theological Seminaries. The school has some connections with both so I am sure that helps. However I think, and I could be wrong about this, some of this school's graduates go on to Campbell University Divinity School. I know both Campell and Regent have accepted students from Heritage Bible College (in Dunn, NC). Heritage is now accredited by TRACS but, at one time, held no accreditation.

    Fourth this lady is, clearly, widely published in her field.

    Either way she has done just fine for herself.
     
    #5 Martin, Jan 18, 2007
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  6. paidagogos

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    Judge a person by his or her merits, not by the school attended

    Yes, I think you are right. The only difference is that I am more familiar with seeing Baptist Christian University, later renamed Louisana Baptist University. Baptist Christian University, I think, did begin as Baptist Christian College to be later upgraded to university status at least in name.

    LBU, however, does have a number of distinguished and successful alumni who have made a reptuation for themselves in certain circles. These include Drs. David M. Carr (President of Midwestern Baptist College), Paul Chappel (President of West Coast Baptist College), Daniel Kim, Bill Gothard, Billy Hamm, Thomas Ice, Otis Ledbetter, Jim McCullough, Chuck Missler, Rick Scarborough, William Welty, et. al. The problem is that LBU does not have in place the controls that assure all graduates produce the quality level that these men have achieved. These men are successful because of their personal intelligence, ambition and character. They probably did very good work at LBU but it does not follow that all graduates have achieved the same level of quality. The quality control and requirements are weak.

    So, the lady prof at Regents is probably a very intelligent, high-achieving person. Her undergraduate experience, although it was at less-than-wonderful Baptist Christian College, was probably comparable to a RA accredited degree. She probably deserved admission to graduate study regardless of her degree source. An accredited degree is only one indicator of a person's achievements. There are many incompetent people out there with accredited degrees--it's no guarantee. As I have stated previously, I am more concerned about what a person can do than where he or she received a degree. This is the fair evaluation, I think.
     
  7. paidagogos

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    Legitimate schools

    I know somewhat of both Carolina Bible College and Heritage Bible College. Both are legitimate Bible colleges, although unaccredited. Look at their faculty and courses. You do not see the earmarks of a degree mill. A number of schools, including Liberty, would accept their graduates, I think. The problem would be recognition by a state university or a grad school unfamiliar with the schools.

    These are acceptable unaccredited degrees. The problem with unaccredited degrees is weeding out the bad ones from the good ones. One has to be almost omniscience to know all the schools. Accreditation simply means that someone else has already reviewed and evaluated for you.
     
  8. Martin

    Martin
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    (bold added)

    ==I agree and would, just for the record, point out that Heritage is now accredited by TRACS. My uncle went to Heritage many years ago. In fact maybe two of my uncles did I am not sure. Both were pentecostal preachers for several years. One of those uncles was a very good preacher. A few years ago my step-mother let me borrow two tapes from his old church (both on Daniel) and I was impressed. He left the ministry several years ago because his wife and son got sick and he had to find a better paying job. Most pentecostal churches are small and cannot pay their ministers well. Sadly both my aunt and cousin were still sick last I heard.

    ==No, neither school is a degree mill. I have meet Ralph Richardson, founder of Carolina Bible College, several times. I think, during conversation, he mentioned that he was friends with Ryrie and Walvoord when he was at Dallas Seminary. I don't think he would associate himself with a degree mill. Carolina Bible College is 'really' small. The school is located in a good sized house. I have been inside that school's library a few times while looking for research materials and I was impressed with the size and quality of their library. I can't understand why they have never sought accreditation. Heritage is a good school. My "only" concern with them, however, is that it sounds like they treat their students like high school children and not college students. Not a big beef but I must find something to be disagreeable about :laugh: . HBC also practices feet washing.
     
    #8 Martin, Jan 18, 2007
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  9. paidagogos

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    A lot depends on the individual

    This post says a lot.
    1. An unaccredited degree does not necessarily low quality. There are many low quality unaccredited degrees but not all are. The problem is that no outside agency has evaluated and attests to the quality.
    2. Sometimes, an unaccredited degree will be accepted, with or without probation, for further accredited academic work.
    3. Our judgment should not be solely on the basis of an accredited or unaccredited degree. We should take all the factors into consideration. We must look at the individual and his or her achievement.
    4. Whereas we must emphasize and strive for the highest standards and quality, we must not disparage those who have achieved comparable status and skill by alternative means. It is the degree claimed without achievement and gotten by spurious means that we must condemn and reject.

    In conclusion, I cannot make a blanket condemnation of unaccredited degrees or alternative methods even though there are very few that I would endorse. However, the possibility exists and is reality in a relatively few cases. My argument is that it depends heavily on the individual and his integrity.

    I have the highest respect and regard for Bill who has placed the unaccredited degree in the proper light, IHMO. He has gone from an unaccredited degree to the highest credentials of impeccable quality. That speaks well of the individual. :thumbs:
     
  10. Martin

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    Btw, my main "beef" is with unaccredited "graduate" programs. Not undergraduate. However I am not against all unaccredited graduate programs. As I believe has been pointed out all schools start out unaccredited so that does have to be taken into account. For example there is Shepherds Seminary in Cary, NC. Charles Ryrie does some teaching there. It is a young school, unaccredited, but from what I hear it is very good.
     
  11. UZThD

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    Thanks Paid. I appreciate you much too.

    I do not recall ever being required to enter conditionally an accredited program because my BA is UA. I actually have a ThB (5th yr) (1st yr sem) from this same UA school . Both Point Loma, RA, (then Pasadena Naz ) and Western Sem RA, ATS accepted a some units from that UA ThB in transfer , and , as implied above, USD, the Calif and Oregon teacher certification authorities, Oreg St Univ,and four school public districts, accepted the UA BA.

    I agree with you that accreditation does not always =quality, and UA does not always (just usually) = lack of quality.

    I wish there were a concise canon by which to accurately measure quality in higher Christian education.

    Bill
     
    #11 UZThD, Jan 18, 2007
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  12. PatsFan

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    Nor nerdy but wise. I learned that little trick from a Navy chaplain when I was shopping for a Christian college many years ago as a 21 year old.
     
  13. paidagogos

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    Enigma?

    Yes, I agree with you heartily but there is somewhat of an enigma here. At Shepherds, there is a good strongly credentialed faculty with unquestionable degrees. However, we do find several who hold (or are in candidate status) their terminal degrees from Trinity. What do you make of this?
     
  14. Martin

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    ==I think they, for now, have beat the odds. How long they will remain at that school is probably up in the air. After all real accreditation, with SACS or TRACS, will probably force some of them out. Maybe not but if I was one of them I would be worried about my job.
     

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