Thoughts from a Passion supporter

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by uhdum, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. uhdum

    uhdum
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    I hope that all who oppose the Passion film realize that those of who support it and advocate it are not clamoring for its elevation to the same "rung" as our Holy Scriptures.

    I hope that all who oppose the film realize that we realize that their are several Catholic elements in the film, as well as extra-Biblical scenes.

    I hope that all who oppose the film realize that Mel Gibson never claims to be anything other than your typical, everyday Catholic, who is living out his worldview and faith (even if I disagree with his views), just as we all do.

    By supporting the tremendous opportunity provided by this film to open people up to questions about Jesus and gain a further appreciation for what He did for us, I hope that those who oppose the film realize that we are not "compromising our beliefs" in support of heresy.

    Finally, I pray that both sides will realize that either side is not necessarily any more or less closer to God. My relationship with God is still between myself and Him... I try not to judge the quality of a person's walk with Him by what he/she supports on this board. Although I have seen this judging take place somewhat in the Bible versions board, I am not saying this takes place regarding the Passion film. However, I pray that it doesn't.

    God bless!
     
  2. Phillip

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    Absolutely an excellent post. Thank you for clarifying the beliefs of people who support the film (of which I am one).

    I think our pastor hit the nail on the head. We churches are doing a disservice to the non-christian community by buying up all the tickets and showing it to our members while it is so popular. This has limited the showings in many areas where there is limited seating and show-times. Unless, of course, we do like our youth are doing and that is providing tickets for the Saturday matinee and asking each one to bring at least one lost friend, if possible.

    You can say what you want, but for the first time (since I've heard old-time evangelists detail it from the pulpit)--have I graphically realized the extent of suffering Jesus did for me. THAT is what I got out of the film. I realize it is a movie and movie writers have artistic license, and I also remember the Ten Commandments and the scenes in it that were not exactly Biblical. [​IMG]
     
  3. Helen

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    I understand it was pretty gory. Doesn't that simply qualify as 'gratuitous violence' done for shock value? Scenes such as the beating can be heard from another's ears or watched in another's agonized face rather than be the 'treat' for all those watching the film.

    I don't plan on seeing the film, in part because of the violence that is not necessary for the impact of the Crucifixion. The depiction of violence does more to insensitize the viewer to it than it does to make the point the filmmaker hopefully wanted to make. The LAST thing we need is insensitization to the sufferings of Christ and the rest of the world as well. It is the Resurrection, the glorious triumph, which is the joy and hope and faith of the Christian. It is the triumph over death and suffering which is the Christian message to the world!
     
  4. donnA

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    According to some of these quotes, some beleive it is quite biblical,a nd see nothing catholic in it. In effect, they do not know scripture well enough to know a phoney when they see it.
    I posted these on another thread, but will repost them here.


     
  5. donnA

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    If supportes would just admit there are errors in it, and recognize a lot of it is catholic and not acceptable then I'd have no problem. But when people say theres no errors, nothing catholic in it, everything in it is biblical, 'well it could have been that way we don't know', or maybe there was a woman like that we don't know' (adding to scripture)then I have a problem.
     
  6. Daniel

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    As a strong Passion supporter I can concede that there is Catholic doctrine and extra-Biblical elements. That does NOT stop me of encouraging Christians to see the film. I have said over and over in posts all over this board that I had the privilege of rededicating my life to Him a few hours after seeing this powerful film.

    Please remember, Gibson is not a Baptist preacher. He is not a Bible seminarian. He did not produce this movie for church comsumption. He had the vision of portraying the immense sufferings of Jesus Christ. In that he was very successful.

    Quibbling about all the extra-Biblical stuff and the Catholic elements is a waste of time since this film is not being presented as a sermon by a Baptist preacher. When will we get it?

    Many of this board are programmed to have a knee-jerk reaction to anything that is not perfectly in line with their systematic theology. That's OK for church and for evaluating a pulpit/teaching ministry of a local church, but not a Hollywood film. This is where we need to stop this foolishness displayed on this board.
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    HI Guys, I talked to Nick's barber today who is a member of the local Christian Church. He brought up the movie. I specifically asked him did he see anything Catholic or anti-Jews. He was like me at my first viewing... never even noticed the cloth in the hands of 'Veronica'. I kept trying to explain when he would have seen that and he was quite sure he didn't know what I was talking about. He also had no idea the part of satan was played by a woman.

    Jack told me most of his customers have either seen the movie or ask about it. It's given him quite a chance to share Jesus!

    For Donna, I think the reason a lot of us don't recognize the Catholic stuff is that we've never known anything about Catholicism! I know I didn't! Had NO idea about stations of the cross or Veronica's veil. Also, instead of saying there are errors in it, I would say it's a man's rendition of what HE thinks MIGHT have occurred and it's just a movie. A good one in my opinion but a movie non the less! Certainly not straight from the Bible but God uses ME so I think HE can use this too. [​IMG]

    Diane
     
  8. Frogman

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    Dear Sister,
    God uses you only because you possess the witness of the Spirit in you. This movie does not possess that witness.

    I am in disagreement with it because it is an effort to confuse the truth of scripture with the doctrine of Catholicism.

    I am in disagreement with it because it is supposed the movie has the witness of the Spirit carried by believers who have been made part of the priesthood that the author of the movie supports.

    I respect your and the opinion of others, but as a believer I would rather be able to say my conscience is clear of supporting this confusion rather than to fear the suffering or loss of fellowship with those who so much support the film as an apparently ordained means of presenting the gospel message.

    It simply is not that.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Lorelei

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    Here is how Catholics are using this movie to witness for their church.

    http://passion.catholicexchange.com/

    A few excerpts

    I haven't even finished reading the guide, I am certain there is more.

    While people keep talking about the "good" that can come from this movie, they refuse to think of the bad. While it may have encourged the heart of a Christian who knew enough of scripture to discern truth from error, it is leading other people into a false belief that salvation comes partly from Mary and that the sacraments are graces that assist in our salvation. These beleifs will not save you. This movie is leading many people into believing a false gospel.

    ~Lorelei
     
  10. Spirit and Truth

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    Thank you Lorelei for sounding the alarm once again. The many who have been lulled into believing that this movie is a great evangelizing tool need to do some research. Either God is a liar, or man is. I tend to believe man is, because in this movie, mysticism, and the words of man are mixed with parts of scripture and promoted as truth.
     
  11. Kathy

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    When I was a kid, the church bus would come around and pick up me, my sister and my brother. We went to a Southern Baptist Church. As I got older, I stopped going...when I was 18, I was exposed to JW and got very deeply involved in this religion. About a year later, my heart was telling me it wasn't right so I left that religion. I didn't re-enter church for over 5 years. I was so confused by what I learned but I finally decided I needed to find out the truth. I've been misled again since then, but again, my heart told me that it wasn't the truth. I am saved and if I am saved, then the Holy Spirit dwells within me.

    I guess my point here (you were wondering if I was ever going to get to it huh? hehe), is that I was SEARCHING in earnest...if people want to believe and not SEARCH in earnest and TEST what they learn, then they are not true to God...when you are true to God, you desire to get closer and learn more...and the more you learn, the more truth is revealed. I understand the fear that people may be misled by Catholic doctrine, but earnest seekers just may search out the truth...if even ONE person does this by seeing this film, that is a victory for Christ!

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  12. uhdum

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    I suppose the question then is, "Can God use this film to accomplish His purposes?" Can God take the film, as "flawed" as it supposedly is, and still use it? I would honestly like to hear your answer to this question. It appears to me as if many people who oppose the film act as if no good can come of it whatsoever. What do you think?

    God bless!
     
  13. Frogman

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    I thought I had written enough on this topic to show why I think nothing good can or will come out of this movie.

    Guess not.

    I believe there is just enough truth included in it to accomodate Christians.

    God did not and has not ever ordained anything except the preaching of the cross and this movie is not an example of that by any stretch.

    The very statements I have seen and heard from Mel Gibson regarding the catholic doctrine of Mary being a mediator between man and Christ is enough to make me believe nothing good will or can come out of this film.


    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  14. Spirit and Truth

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    uhduh:

    I suppose the question then is, "Can God use this film to accomplish His purposes?" Can God take the film, as "flawed" as it supposedly is, and still use it? I would honestly like to hear your answer to this question. It appears to me as if many people who oppose the film act as if no good can come of it whatsoever. What do you think?


    S&T:

    Those questions and many more are addressed here:

    http://www.SeekGod.ca/gibsonadvocates.htm
     
  15. donnA

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    As you can see from the various quotes I got from here on the BB most people do not want to admit this. Which is too bad they can not tell the difference.
     
  16. Deacon

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    If Paul could point worshipers to an idol, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD" and use it to witness to them in Athens (Acts 17:22f) then I'm sure He can use this movie to move hearts.

    Udhum, the author of the original post wishes that people stop judging each other about this issue. There sure is a lot of condemnation around here.

    Rob
     
  17. All about Grace

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    Not only did Paul utilize the altar of the unknown God in his presentation, he quoted pagan poets in order to connect with his audience and point them to the message. Get this: Paul employed a common methodological tool and recognizable means within that culture to communicate a timeless message.

    I guess his words about becoming all things to all men in order to save some were legitimate and should influence our own methods.

    Too bad BB was not around in those days to criticize the apostle's preferred method.
     
  18. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    SBC:

    Not only did Paul utilize the altar of the unknown God in his presentation, he quoted pagan poets in order to connect with his audience and point them to the message. Get this: Paul employed a common methodological tool and recognizable means within that culture to communicate a timeless message.

    I guess his words about becoming all things to all men in order to save some were legitimate and should influence our own methods.

    Too bad BB was not around in those days to criticize the apostle's preferred method.

    S&T:

    There is a "slight" difference here.Paul, according to scripture, was under the authority and inspiration of God, and the chosen vessel of Jesus according to God's own Word. Can Mr Gibson claim the same authority? His movie is based on mystical visions and mixing God's Word with the words of men. Somehow that doesn't look like God's signature, because it would go against His Word.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    Amen!
     
  20. All about Grace

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    Paul's methods were exclusive to him???????

    If you are consistent here, then you have discredited your own logic for we would have to categorize all methods from Scripture as exclusive to them. At that point, we are left with no biblical model.

    By the way no one is suggesting Mel has apostolic authority.
     

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