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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TheWinDork, Aug 26, 2006.
Thoughts? Comments? Theological Disertations?
I once used this as the reason I stopped street corner preaching.
Some people can't grasp the value or meaning of the gospel, so they cast it away. The comparison here is like casting your fine pearls before a swine. What need does a swine have for pearls?
I have now grown to believe this does not mean we should not stop giving God's Word to unbelievers, but we should be careful so as not to bring disrespect to God's message. It's a thin line and a tough balancing act.
There is a lot of symbolism in this one verse. Dogs, pigs and pearls are rich in meaning. This should be good discussion.
This means that we are not to continue wasting our time trying to convert those that continue to show contempt for the Gospel, rather we should move on to those that are more open to Gods word.
It has to do with the offer of the kingdom of heaven (literally kingdom of the heavens in Matthew and John 3) and the kingdom of God in other gospel accounts.
Jesus came offering positions in His coming kingdom and they were only available at that time to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and no one else.
Wow! Very good and interesting viewpoints. I do agree on all accounts. :thumbs: :thumbsup:
I wonder, Do calvinists use this scripture to support thier contention that the Gospel was not intended for all? But for "The Elect" only?
Thanks for all the input, I enjoy such discussions.
No, Calvinists are very evangelistic. Evangelism Explosion, a witnessing program, was created by Dr. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries. God determines who is elect, man does'nt.
The Hyper- Calvinist may be less evangelistic. I'm not sure.
God Determines the elect, maybe. But he allows man to decide if he wants to accept the Love Gift or not.
From the Strongs.....:
So, much for Calvinism eh? :smilewinkgrin:
Well which way is it man? Does God determine or does he allow man to decide?
Yep..you done it. Case closed.
Wait I have another idea. Maybe we should just believe the Bible.
I do believe the Bible, trouble is most calvinists, believe what thier books, written by "learned" MEN tell them.
Case in point, ALL calvinists believe that our will is in BONDAGE and cannot reach out to God, at all, never, quit trying... cute part is... it's not found in the Bible anywhere... But in some Calvinist Teachers book.
Garbage, Pure Garbage... God sent his Son, so that we could have eternal life.
For more information on the False doctrine on Calvinism:
We shall see.
Opps. I see they left much of your Bible out. Lets start with a easy one.
Now...do you believe the Bible?
Cloud? Cloud is a joke. I can show you tons of made up lies on his site. Would you care to see? Yet he has followers...beats me.
I'll check this out later. Thanks for the link.
I just read a few pages of this book. This is wogwash at its best. Vance just does not have his facts right. Now I only read the likens of 3-4 pages, but if the rest of the book is this bad it is a waste of time.
As it turns out I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Show me in Scripture where man has a freewill. Man has a will but it is held captive to sin, man will not choose God.
Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Genesis 3:10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."
Revelation 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Man does choose, but man always chooses sin over God. Man never comes to God on his own.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 6:35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
John 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
Romans 8:29-30 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Romans 9:14-24 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matthew 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."
Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You, That he may dwell in Your courts. We shall be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Of Your holy temple.
and Now that I see what kind of mindset I'm dealing with here. I shall stop this debate with an Alexanderian/Jesuit trained apostate.
thank you for wasting my time.
Sorry, I don't debate with Alexandrian/Jesuit's...
Jarthur, I think someone got upset. What do you think?
Can someone explain what an Alexandrian/Jesuit is?
Being called an apostate by some, I wear in full glory.
BTW...I can fully understand why he would run from your post. What is funny...His claim was this doctrine is NOT in Gods Word and what do you do but post verses. I guess that was what made him mad. :
I guess its better then "burning the Christian at the stake".
You will have to ask windork his meaning, but my guess is this. There is a small uneducated group that claim.."nothing good ever came from Alexandrian". I call them uneducated for when they speak they tell how much they do not know about history. This group is often tied to the KJVO semi-cult. They try to link a flow of the truth though ONLY Antioch and all the rest of the early Christian are fools with bad doctrine and of the devil.
Believe it or not, there are some that hold to this. I quick study of history disproves this. When I did a study of these claims 20 years ago...it was easy to see this was a false claim. The problem, nowadays this group has wrote their own history books and when there is no proof to back their claims, they make something up and say it was lost and burned by the RCC. I kid you not.
Not sure if this is what windork means...but it is my guess it is. The sad part, many are Baptist and should know better.
This thread went from one aspect to a whole new extreme, back to the orginal post. Matthew 7:6 we are told not to cast our pearls to the swine, and not to give of that which is Holy to the dogs. However, one may plant, one may water but God brings the Harvest. One may not need to always hand out tracts, preach from the Bible. Sometimes that job has already been done, and you are being used by God to water the seed someone else had already planted. The way you live your life in front of others being that light, and the salt of the earth. People will see this in you and will want apart of that, then your own personal testimony is the best in witnessing. Explaining what God did for you.. Because God knows the path I was on. I was a Satanist for 3yrs, I was heavy into drugs, sex etc. and when I tell people how God changed me, the response is amazing.
Atonement, welcome to the board. Great testimony too.
Thank you for the warm welcome FERRON BRIMSTONE