Thoughts on this situation?

First of all, I wouldn't worry about the DMin. It won't enable you to get a teaching position, and as a bivocational minister it would just end up costing you a bunch of tuition money for essentially a structured program of professional development. Additionally, DMin programs are generally designed for full-time pastors.

If you want to teach in a seminary, you probably need the MDiv and the PhD. That's just reality. You also need them from either ATS or RA schools. That's also reality, unless you are trying to teach at a BJU-type institution (and the positions are few, though the doctorates are many). Even in the broader range of evangelicalism, we are graduating far too many PhDs for even most of them to get slots teaching.

Why do you want to continue your education?

If you just want the education, then get some good books and read. You seem to already have the credentials. Don't worry about the title "Doctor."

If your plan is to remain bivocational, I honestly don't see the point of going through doctoral studies.

 

Pastor Shaun,

Are you happy and contented being bi-vocational as a pastor and and a teacher or are you hoping to get into a full-time teaching position?

If you want to get more education to continue doing what you are doing, only more effectively, I question whether the Ph.D. is the way to go. Seems you might get a more rounded education for wearing a variety of hats by going through an M.Div program followed by a D.Min. These degrees are not as academic as a Ph.D., but you are not currently serving in academia, you are serving in ministry. For instance, an M.Div/D.Min plan would help you with matters of sermon/lesson presentation more than a Ph.D. would and that seems more applicable to what you are doing.

OTOH, if your goal is to get into academia, I think a Ph.D. would serve you better.

Also, since you already have a masters, it is possible that much of those credits would transfer into an M.Div program.

 

Though I am a Liberty Seminary graduate, I must be honest with you. An online MDiv from Liberty will not qualify you to enter a PhD program. You have to have a certain number of hours of greek and hebrew, along with a modern language, to enter most theological PhD programs. I am not aware of a RA seminary that offers an MDiv online with languages. Southern Evangelical Seminary and Luther Rice University both offer MDiv with languages online. Both are accredited, but neither are regionally accredited. Having said that, there are some major theological seminaries that will accept an MDiv, from either school, and allow you to apply to their PhD program. I would suggest that you talk with the school(s) you wish to get your PhD from about this and verify that they will honor a degree from Southern Evangelical or Luther Rice before you spend one penny on those schools. There are several major seminiares that will not honor an MDiv from Luther Rice or Southern Evangelical. So this is something you must do your own homework on. Sit down one afternoon and let your fingers do the walking and talk to the schools directly.

==Well you are finishing up your BS in Biblical Studies, right? Ok, that will qualify you to preach and teach in a public school, right? I assume so. Why not consider this route? Get a Masters in Religious Education from Liberty which, btw, is regionally accredited. Once you finish that you can enter a Doctor of Education program at any University that is accredited (Liberty has one). At the end of that road you will have a solid education background and Biblical background. I am not saying you should do that, I am just saying that you might want to think it over as an option. The decision you make must be between you, the LORD, and your family.

MRE Program at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary *

EdD Program at Liberty University Graduate School *

MDiv Christian Education at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

EdD Program at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary

* = Can be done totally or mostly online.

Either way, make sure you pay close attention to all admission requirements and that you talk with the school(s) you wish to do doctoral level work at.

God Bless you in your studies. :thumbs:

 

If your institution is accredited, then you have a good chance to transfer hours. However, do not attempt to finish the degree if this is your plan. Liberty will only accept transfer credits that are not part of a finished degree. The main exception is that if you do an MAR through Liberty, they let you transfer the hours into an MDiv. That's only if you do both degrees at Liberty, though.

The MRE allows for 30 hours of transfer credit. If you take courses at your current institution, make sure they correspond to the courses in the MRE at Liberty. You're safest when you stay with the basics (OT Survey, NT Survey, Systematic, etc.). In any case, you should contact the registrar at Liberty.

 

==If it is accredited,then they would probably accept a limited number. You need to contact Liberty Seminary on Tuesday and ask them directly about this matter. Make sure you ask about the Master of Religious Education (MRE) online. You need to do this (1) to get the maximum number of hours they might/could accept from your school's MA (2) to make sure you take the right classes where you are. If you take the wrong graduate classes at your current institution you could be wasting your money. It might be better for you to go directly into Liberty's online MRE program and not spend time/money at your current school. (3) to make sure Liberty will honor graduate credits/degrees from your school (very important). Those are the kind of things you need to find out when you talk to them.

You also need to think ahead about where you might wish to earn your EdD from. Make sure that a MRE will qualify you to apply to the programs you are interested in. I know it will at Liberty or Southern. However if you are thinking about a secular EdD you will need to make sure.

Liberty's phone number is: 1-800-424-9595

 

Liberty University will allow up to 30 hours to be transferred into the MRE program (60hr program). However, you really need to talk to Liberty directly before you make any decision. See Previous Reply.

Just curious, and sorry if you have already answered this, what subject would your 36hr MA be in?

 

Nope, not unless they break their own regulations (read: "ain't gonna happen").

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/index.cfm?PID=12936

I bolded the relevant parts.

 

Without a doubt, the EdD.

The DEdMin is designed for full-time education ministers, and it will mean nothing in the secular world. It's a relatively new degree, and it's very uncommon to find an associate pastor with one. A senior pastor would probably have the DMin instead. To be honest with you, I have no idea why the seminaries began offering this degree (other than for financial reasons).

The EdD gives you options in both worlds, especially if you get a secular EdD. You could teach college or graduate school in either a secular or Christian context. You could go into administration, or, if you are still a teacher, you'll get the raise for having the doctorate.

I have to ask, though, why do you seem so intent on getting a doctorate?

 

Then you're definitely going to need to go the route of the EdD or PhD. No other option will enable you to teach.

 

==I am a bit confused.

What do you want to teach at the University level?

The EdD will allow you to teach education courses at the University level. It will not allow you to teach religion courses. If you want to teach something like Old Testament or New Testament you need to forget the MRE, EdD advice and get you an MDiv with languages and then a PhD in the field you wish to teach in. You also need to realize that there is a real possibility that a PhD in Old Testament or New Testament could take you to a secular University in which you could be the only Christian professor.

So, you need to find out what you believe God has called you to teach. I thought you were wanting to continue teaching regular school but that you still wished to get a Doctorate.

 

I echo this advice. Getting a doctorate just to be able to teach SOMETHING is an unwise course of action.

The only reason one should pursue a PhD is pure, all consuming passion for the academic subject matter. Without a high level of passion, one will not be able to endure the hardships and enormous workload.

If you would like to teach, that means you're going to have to do a lot of scholarly writing even after the doctorate. Positions are few and far between.