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Thoughts on wine sermon (and link to one that uses the Bible)

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I went back and reread my post. To clarify: I was not saying that anyone who practices abstinence is a pagan.
    My point was that to say that an inanimate object such as wine is inherently evil and out to get poeple so to speak and the only way anyone can avoid its powers is total abstinence is a pagan way of dealing with the problem.

    Even if a person deals with a particular problem in a pagan way does not mean they are not saved.
     
    #21 Dale-c, Feb 25, 2008
  2. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    How is this actually relevant? Just wonderin'??!
    I have never questioned anyone's salvation (although I would freely question anyone's judgment, theology, or conclusions, if I deemed it appropriate) on the BB, personally, but that also happens to be irrelevant to the point I shall attempt to make. I believe your use of the word "pagan" may be somewhat ill-advised, here.

    Something may well be "Biblical" and yet "believed" by someone who is "pagan", I'd say. For the easiest example of this I can come up with, off the top of my head, I'd offer the belief of "mono-theism" (one God), that is certainly "Biblical" [the 'Shema' of Deut. 6:4 cf. 6:1-10 "Shema, Ysrael! YHWH Elohianu, YHWH echad!", and pardon my illiterate (in Hebrew) attempts to transliterate this verse, and echoed by the Athanasian Creed which states "We worship one God ..., and yet there are not three gods, but one God"], and I would think believed by all Christians.
    In addition, those of the Jewish faith, most "cults", and some I certainly would consider "pagan" world religions, as well, including, the Hindu religion, Sikhs, "'pagan' pantheism" and "'pagan' panentheism", among other flavors of this belief, including 'Deism', also believe in "monotheism", or "One God".

    However, as I hope I've just shown, I am surely a "monotheist', but not any "pagan" version of such.

    Although we certainly do not allow our understanding and definitions to be determined by 'paganism', the statement implying something that is "pagan", cannot be associated as/with 'Christian' or 'Biblical' is simply "painting with too broad a brush", IMO.

    Ed
     
    #22 EdSutton, Feb 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2008
  3. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum New Member

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    How can you disagree with me? I haven't said what I believe. If you want to know, you can read the PDF link below. (Then you can disagree with me.)
    Should Christians Drink Alcohol?
     
    #23 Dr. L.T. Ketchum, Feb 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2008
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I read it...and I disagree :)
     
    #24 webdog, Feb 25, 2008
  5. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    I disagree also.
     
    #25 Hardsheller, Feb 26, 2008
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I definitely disagree.
     
    #26 Baptist Believer, Feb 26, 2008
  7. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I read it and I agree that a Christian is best off abstaining. But to say that the wine was non-alcholic is a stretch at best.
     
    #27 sag38, Feb 26, 2008
  8. dan e.

    dan e. New Member

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    and at worst....?
     
    #28 dan e., Feb 26, 2008
  9. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum New Member

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    Well, I am glad we finally got that matter settled!

    I was really concerned that none of you would agree with me.:tongue3:
     
    #29 Dr. L.T. Ketchum, Feb 26, 2008
  10. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    You don't have to be concerned that WE disagree with you but it would be wise to make sure that you your position can be found throughout church history.

    Since I doubt you will find it, that is a cause for concern.
    Your view on alcohol, though not heretical itself came about around the same approximate time as the mormons, the JWs Church of Christ etc.

    Now, I am not saying there is a direct correlation of these different things but they do have one thing in common:
    New ideas and movements that started in the 19th century.
     
    #30 Dale-c, Feb 26, 2008
  11. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. You can make that case that it was diluted, but I just don't see the evidence to convince me that it was Welch's.
     
    #31 StefanM, Feb 26, 2008
  12. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    Pretty obvious they were having real wine at the Lord's Supper. Paul wasn't scolding them for drinking wine he was scolding them for getting drunk and not sharing the wine and food with the rest. The being selfish here is why he wouldn't say they were having the Lord's Supper. He even said they could drink and eat at their own houses.

    1Co 11:20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper,
    1Co 11:21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk.
    1Co 11:22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.
     
    #32 JerryL, Feb 26, 2008
  13. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    this post is 100% proof :laugh:
    Whilst juicing some grapes in the summer to make a cool drink for my husband and myself, I noticed that the residue was fermenting even as I juiced the grapes........... was that not an alchoholic reaction ? - should we have not partaken of it? It was a warm day and the natural yeast on the grapes was reacting with the natural sugars in the fruit causing the fermentation.What proof was that stuff ????
     
    #33 Gwyneth, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2008
  14. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    It is interesting to note that wine is a completely natural proccess.
    Sure, it takes human labor to make good wine but if you study the nature of grapes you will see that wine is what they were designed for and what GOd intended it for.
     
    #34 Dale-c, Feb 27, 2008
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