Threatening to Vote Thrid Pary?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by leesw, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. leesw

    leesw
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    For the I'll-vote-for-a-third-party-crowd and those who say they have to "vote their conscience" (and somehow that means voting for someone with no chance), I have a comparison for you to think about.

    If you had a child in the hands of a madman. And he gave you two options. ONE, that he would kill your child or TWO, that he would slap your child. Are you going to say, "No! I select that you not do anything to him." To which the madman replies, "I only gave you two options right now and if you don't pick then I will choose to kill him." Would you tell the madman that you love your child and will therefore pick the absolute perfect option for him because as a parent your conscience couldn't possibly choose for your child to be slapped. Would you announce your choice to the madman of nothing happening bad to the child, knowing he would now kill your child just so your conscience as a parent would be better because of your choice?

    No you wouldn't. That would not make any sense! You would choose the slap rather than the kill and be very grateful to save your child! That is the situation we are facing with most GOP candidates against a Democrat candidate.

    I can't vote for someone who has zero chance of winning BECAUSE of my conscience. I feel that I am betraying the issues. Example, if I voted for Alan Keyes (I did once when W was running away with it and could not lose in his first primaries).... if I voted for Alan Keyes and somehow Hillary won (I think I just threw up a little) then I would literally be giving up very important issues. I mean, if Huckabee, Thompson, McCain or Romney won at least they would have an obligation to preside over prolife legislation and judges. Whereas Hillary not only has a record of the exact opposite but has run on the "I'm-more-pro-abortion-than-Obama-or-Edwards" position. She (and Obama or Edwards) would be obligated to preside over pro-abortion legislation and judicial appointees.

    If I vote for whoever is right on MORE issues, then I AM voting my conscience. I mean let's face it, morally the best guy to be President would be Billy Graham or Max Lucado. So who is going to vote for them and then not claim responsibility if Hillary gets in? We won't have a perfect candidate unless Jesus returns and wants to run for office. So the best thing to do is make our votes count and vote on issues--that's our responsibility.

    If you're going to reply to this, please don't base your reply on some preconceived idea or you just really wanting to be right. This is a very important matter that determines the future of our country and our responsibility. We select our leaders, therefore we are in a leadership position and, as the Bible says, will be "judged more strictly." Obviously the "judged more strictly" part is a different topic so let's not discuss that on this thread. But of what I said above, what are your honest thoughts. Do you have the mental ability to change your mind or are you dead set in your ways just for the sake of not admitting you might have looked at it improperly in the past?
     
  2. Ps104_33

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    Well said. I am sure that if some of the founding fathers were running there would be issues we would disagree with them on. Its all about pride. They better cross every "t" and dot every "i" or I will take my vote and go home. And then we end up with Hillary. But you will hear some disingenuous libertarian try to tell you that Giuliani or Huckabee or Tancredo would be worse than Clinton. Its PRIDE!
     
  3. Rubato 1

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    So, where to draw the line?

    I don't think this election would be the time to vote third party, but if 30-40 years ago Christians would have, then "Conservatives" may have gotten the message and stayed conservative. The Republican you vote in will do things that Democrats of the 70's would have only dreamt about.

    So nowadays the madman choice #2 is worse than the madman choice #1 was back in the day. Are we making progress here? When do we take our soapbox out and make our position and wishes clear? When its too late and we don't have the influence we once had? Do we vote for someone who is pro-abortion because the candidate who is pro-life has no chance? If we vote Conscience, the Pro-lifer might have a chance next time. If we cave to Republican Back-roomers, are we tightening our downward spiral? If we draw the line at abortion, which is a moral issue, why don't we draw the line at unfair taxation/socialisticprograms, which are a political issue, but just as detrimental to our society?
     
  4. leesw

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    This is just muddying the water. If it were down to Hillary/Obama/Edwards against Huckabee/Thompson/Hunter/McCain/Romney we all know what their positions are. Some Presidents don't keep their word from the campaign trail, many do. So we have to make the best decision we can. If we think they are being honest, then we vote on what they say they will do. Not being able to predict the future is no reason to vote third party. If Huckabee would overturn Roe vs. Wade and make abortion illegal, that alone would deter some women form getting abortion (because they wouldn't want to go to jail or go to some back alley quack). Do we really want to risk delaying that to vote for a hopeless "third party"? Even if it saved the lives of two extra babies because Huckabee made it happen sooner than a third party could ever get to the White House, it'd be worth it.
     
  5. Martin

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    ==That is not a fair, or in this election cycle, or accurate comparison. It is more like the madman gave us two options on how to kill the child. So there are no good choices. Both the mainstream democrats and republicans are destroying this country with their unconstitutional, anti-founders, agendas/plans.

    ==No, its not. As I said, it is MUCH worse.

    ==If voting for someone because they can win means that you are voting for someone who disagrees with your core values then winning hardly seems important. When it comes to matters of importance, I don't believe we can afford to be pragmatic. We have to stick with the truth.


    ==Wrong. Most likely those guys would do the exact same thing Bush has done. Get elected pretending to be a small government, pro-life conservative. Once elected turning and growing the size of government and largely ignoring the life issue except when they feel like throwing the pro-life folks a bone just to keep them happy. When are conservatives going to get with the program? These guys are out to gain power and they will say or promise anything to get it.


    ==I would like to have someone with the morals of Graham (etc) but I would want someone who had more experience in government and business than those folks.


    ==In other words, you believe it is our duty to vote republican even though the republican party is going in the same direction as the democratic party and even though the republican candidate will most likely be a big government, pro-choice, liberal. Is that what you are really saying?

    ==I don't have to think I am right or prove that I am right, the past 15 or so years have done that for me.

    ==And that is why I refuse to vote for a big government, pro-choice, republican.


    ==I have the mental ability to examine the issues and determine which candidate is the best fit. I have enough mental ability to know that going with the crowd is rarely a good idea. And I have enough mental ability to know that winning is not important when you have compromised most everything you believe in order to win.
     
    #5 Martin, Dec 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2007
  6. Tama

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    What did Ross Perot voters gain?
     
  7. saturneptune

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    That is pure baloney. If your standards and expectations for this nation are so low as to vote for a pro abortionist (Giuliani), or an abortionist and gay rights advocate who lies about it (Romney), then your standards are no better than the Democrats.

    To say a third party has no chance is a strawman. Again, baloney. Half of the American people are not registered that could vote. On the best day, half of those show up. 43% of the members of both parties are sick and tired of their party, its inept and self indulgent leadership and would vote for a third party at the drop of a hat. Of the ones who do vote, at least a third are already independent. Don't tell me that a third party cannot win. The numbers are there. It would take a real leader to inspire the American people.

    This mindset is exactly why we have a moderate liberal President now, elected by conservative voters.
     
  8. leesw

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    I never said I would vote for Rudy Giuliani. I won't. He shouldn't even be in the Republican party.

    And you don't know that the mentioned Republicans (Huckabee, Hunter, Tancredo, Thompson, McCain or Paul) would be big government. And I especially believe they would not be proabortion.
     
  9. Rubato 1

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    Democrats who flip-flop into the Republican Party do so because they know that the Christians will vote for them just so a Democrat does not win. Every Candidate Dem or Rep caters as much as his platform allows to the Crhistian Conservatives because they know that we will sway the election. Leesw is right--many Republicans should not even be in that party. They are liberals in sheep's clothing.
     
  10. KenH

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    Personally, I vote for the person that I want to win an election - regardless of whether the person is a member of a major party, a minor party, or an independent candidate.
     
  11. Rubato 1

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    You sound pretty smart for a Cowboys fan.
     
  12. KenH

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    Thank you.

    The best and the brightest support America's Team. :)
     
  13. hillclimber1

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    Well written, and I agree. Perot, as third party spoiler, gave the election to Clinton. Though it's open to debate, it was close enough for illustration. Currently the Dem's love third parties.
     
  14. hillclimber1

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    I do understand the "vote your conscience" and in the primaries I do that, but not in the general.
     
  15. KenH

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    Yes, it is. The evidence I have seen show that Perot did not cause George H.W. Bush to lose in 1992.
     
  16. KenH

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    Which is why conservatives/libertarians are not able to stop the march down the socialist path in these United States. In the final analysis they end up voting for either socialist or socialist-lite.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    It is beyond my comprehension how anyone on this board could vote for pro abortionist, gay rights Giuliani, or Romney in the same catagory except he is not truthful about it for the sake of voting Republican.
     
  18. TomVols

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    I'd like to see this evidence just for sheer curiosity.
     
  19. KenH

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    Okay. I'll have to find it again, Tom.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    Anyone care for a Cuban cigar????

    [​IMG]
     
    #20 Brother Bob, Dec 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2007

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