Three Kingdom's of God (Eschatology)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ed Edwards, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Three Kingdom's of God:

    I shall prove my eschatology which is Futuristic (90% of Bible Prophecy is yet to be fulfilled in OUR FUTURE), pre-tribulation (Jesus comes back again before the Millennium Messianic Kingdom of the Hebrews/Jews/Israeli).

    Here is what I'll prove:

    The Lord has Three Kingdoms. I am a saved-by-Jesus Person so I'm in two of those Kingdoms.

    Cautions:

    1. My trailer/signature talks about using more than one Bible for understanding the harder Scriptures. The easiest Bible I can search is one of the KJV1769 family of Editions, the one that e-sword uses. I use that to search cause it has the reading I'm most familiar with, the Strong's family of helps (each Greek or Hebrew word is assigned a number called 'The Strong's Number') so I have original language help. Not to mention that the electronic search programs are way ahead of the manual concordances. Then I also have the Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition which I quote a lot (no Strong's numbers to confound searches). So i search one Bible, find the scripture(s), then quote the Geneva Bible which is written in early Modern English with U's instead of V's, vowel 'I' in stead of vowel 'J', enough silent 'e's to e-e-e-e-k anybody. Some think this is Ancient English ;)

    2. 90% of my pre-trib pre-mill futuristic 'Dispensation' is already in files in my computer and has been posted on the Baptist Board already. Some of these files were started in the early 1990s (the one that mentions the Republican 'Contract for American'). I rewrite them from time to time to clarifly what I mean (after interacting with others). This means that I'll be improving by writing upgrades to the files I do have - in this Topic.

    3. It is a waste of my time for people to tell the the PC (politically correct) saying: "you are best doing if you are searching for the Truth". You need to start with no presuppositions and work from there. How many times do I have to start from scratch? I found the Truth, The Truth is Jesus and His Resurrection. So I don't think you will threaten my salvation. No use trying. I've been studying and the Holy Spirit has been adding to my understanding of my pre-trib rapture, pre-mill Second Advent, futurist Dispensation Theory. BTW, I'm qualified to teach Mathematical Logic (well in the 1970s I was) in the Public Schools of Oklahoma) and I tell you this Mathematical Logic fact: Any logical Theory Starts with undefined terms (aka: suppositions) and unprovable Statements (aka: suppositions). People who don't know that they have to start with undefined terms and unprovable statements to be Man's Mathematical Logical - those people can be dogmatic, yell & scream, jump the pew & yahoo! - but they won't be logical. BTW: Mankind has discovered a mathematical subset of God's Logic. Such Mathematical Logic was created by God and discovered by mankind. Don't waste your time telling me God's Logic isn't like Man's Logic - it isn't but that doesn't disprove: Mathematical Logic was created by God and discovered by mankind.

    4. I have never started my pre-trib rapture, pre-mill Second Advent, futurist Dispensation Theory trying to prove that God has three Kingdoms. So if we find five Kingdoms of God, then that will be that.

    5. I'll probably start with some Logical errors I've come across. We can prove things from The Bible (God's Holy Written Word) but we must use Mathematical Logic.

    6. Six-word posts will probably make one look foolish here. Recall that there are several very good posters who like only have Thursday afternoon off Work (Working through College, night shift) They will be back in a few day & we shall try to go slow.
    This Topic was started because of some things said over here (which is an interesting read in it's own right - just don't post there if you are NOT a Baptist).

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1318764&posted=1#post1318764
     
    #1 Ed Edwards, Nov 8, 2008
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  2. Ed Edwards

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    The question which cannot be answsered is posted another Topic.
    Here is the answer, will it be mocked here?

    // Can someone or anyone show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews? //


    Matthew 19:28 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible, Holman, 2003):
    Jesus said to them, "I assure you: In the Messianic Age, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

    'sits on His Glorious throne' - He who sits on the Throne rules the Kingdom
    'the 12 tribes of Israel' - the citizens of the Kingdom
    'In the Messianic Age' - humm, must be some kind of Messanic Kingdom
    'the Jews' are one of 'the 12 Tribes of Israel'

    While the throne that Jesus sits on exists in Heaven, there is no Biblical mention of the 12 disciples sitting on thrones in Heaven - maybe those thrones from which the 12 Disciples sit in judgement are on the Earth? (this probably can be shown elsewhere in the Bible, but it looks pretty clear here). Another proof: the earth has 'ages', Heaven does not have ages


    If one wants the physical Earth boundaries of the Millennial Messianic Kingdom check Ezekiel 48.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Things the Lord just has one of:

    Ephesians 4:1-7 (HCSB):

    I, therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, urge you to walk worthy of the calling you have received,
    2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, accepting one another in love,
    3 diligently keeping the unity of the Spirit with the peace that binds us.
    4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope at your calling;
    5 one Lord,
    one faith,
    one baptism,
    6 one God and Father of all,
    who is above all and through all and in all.
    7 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah's gift.


    Praise God that I was given grace using the Measure of the Gift of Messiah Jesus. I sure needed more than could be given my by my tiny little measure.

    No mention here of one and only one Kingdom of God, Kingdom of the Lord, Kingdom of Messiah, etc. Thus there can be more than one Kingdom of God. (Note this does NOT prove there is more than one Kingdom of God, only allows there might be more than one Kingdom of God).
     
  4. Amy.G

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    Messianic age?

    I believe your particular translation has the same theological bent as you do.


    Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


    I take it that the "regeneration" is referring to the new heavens and new earth.
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Ed Edwards

    Matthew 19:28
    Jesus said to them, "I assure you: In the Messianic Age, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel"

    GE:
    "In the generation (resurrection) when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His Glory, ye shall also sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
    This eschatology had been fulfilled and perfected and finalised (the number 12, twice) in and with and through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead and grave of Joseph near the place called Gogotha.

    Your 'translation' Ed Edwards, is false, and the Word spoken here is spoken to the apostles- to no one else after them and not to any who afterwards would have followed them. Nevertheless it by the very rule of Christ and His sent ones, will carry the fruits of the regeneration of all predestined to be regenerated by the Word of God thus Proclaimed =verse 29d= which is the Kingdom of God and of His Christ -- the Kingdom of heaven.

    One King; one Kingdom; one everlasting Kingdom of Christ and of God and of His saints.
     
    #5 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Nov 9, 2008
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  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Mark Lowe posted,
    thread,
    'This Generation'

    "What Did Jesus Mean when He said This Generation during his Preaching Matt23-34
    γενεά
    genea
    ghen-eh-ah'
    a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time."


    EdEdwards refers to Mt19:28, and also says, that he believes 'generation' refers to "the age to come".

    In Mt19:28, the Greek word is not merely "γενεά" (MarkLowe), but, 'palingenesiai' (Ed Edwards) = 're-surrection'. Quite a difference that must be reckoned with.
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    One King; one Kingdom; one everlasting Kingdom of Christ and of God and of His saints.

    We are currently living in the temporary, (old) earthly and 'pre-second advent of Christ phase or part of this only Kindgom of God since "the beginning of the creation of God", essentially contained in Jesus Christ and the message of the Gospel. After Christ's return, His Kingdom shall have entered upon its eternal, glorified, (heavenly) and New Earth phase or part.

    Only what the common believers have always believed.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    Covenant = a Testament from God to a group of humans
    Dispensation = each different Testament

    The three covenants:
    The Old Covenant with Yisrael (documented in the Old Testament).
    The New Covenant with Yisrael
    The New Covenant with the Gentiles (Documented in the New Testament)
     
  9. Ed Edwards

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    1. Logical error - you have no way of knowing what 'the common believers have always believed.

    2. Your 'phase' is my 'different Kingdom'
    So you are saying what I'm saying using different words.
    I agree with you 100% cause it is what the Scripture says!
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    I. MESSANIC AGE

    I believe all translations have the same theological bent as I do!

    G3824
    παλιγγενεσία
    paliggenesia
    pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah
    From G3825 and G1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), that is, (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.



    II. the Regeneration

    I take it that the 'regeneration' is referring to the Millennial (Temporal) Messianic Kingdom Covenant Age

    dispensation = Kingdom Covenant Age
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    The following essay is supposed to be true no matter what one's Eschatology might be. If it does not represent your viewpoint, feel free to so note in this topic. I got this essay to this by listening to other viewpoints than my own.

    [ I am pre-trib (rapture before Tribulation Judgment Period), pre-Mill, and futurisic). The milage of others may vary. ]

    ---------------------------------
    There are four possible Basic Approaches
    to Prophecy. All of them are believed by some
    Christians:

    Preterism (past)
    Historicism (now)
    Futurism (future)
    Idealism (timeless)

    Preterism - the Tribulation Period has already taken place.

    Historicism - the Tribulation Period started in
    the 4th century (301-400AD) in events pertaining
    to Constantine & his Christianization of the Roman Empire
    and continues until the Second Coming.

    Fururism - most prophetic events will take
    place in the future especially: Tribulation Period,
    Second Coming, & Millinnial Messanic
    Kingdom.

    Idealism - there is no specific timing for events,
    the prophecies of the New Testament are to
    be understood spiritually (they are still Literal & REAL)
    not physically.

    There are three basic relationships between the
    Millennial Messanic Kingdom and the Second Coming
    of Messiah Jesus:

    a-mill
    pre-mill
    post-mill


    a-mill - 'no mill' - the millennial Messanic Kingdom
    is to be interpeted real, literal, and spiritual

    pre-mill - the physical Second Coming of Messiah Jesus
    will be before the physical Millennial Messanic Kingdom.

    post-mill - mankind will set up a physical Millennial Messanic Kingdom
    worthy of being Rules by Christ who will then have His Second Coming

    Relations between the two bold lists above.

    Preterism (past) can lead only to:
    a-mill
    post-mill

    (it cannot lead to pre-mill because the Millennium
    hasn't happened yet)

    Historicism (now) can lead to all three x-mills
    a-mill
    pre-mill
    post-mill


    Futurism (future) and only be:
    pre-mill
    post-mill

    (if you are a-mill then likely you are Idealistic or Peteristic)

    Idealism (timeless) can only be:
    a-mill - the millennial Kingdom is within (spiritual),
    so is the second coming)
    post-mill - the millennial Kingdom is within (spiritual),
    but the second coming is physical
    (pre-mill cannot be because it calls for a physical
    Millennial Messanic Kingdeom and a physical Second
    Coming)
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Ed Edwards, you are just making up your own stuff, then tell everybody: Here are all the possible impossibility and the one and only possibility, my own.
    Like here:
    "a-mill - 'no mill' - the millennial Messanic Kingdom
    is to be interpreted real, literal, and spiritual"

    That is your definition of "a-mill", not the real thing! Of course no one believes this kind of "a-mill", and voila, Ed Edwards always right and the other fellows always wrong!

    'A-mill' is - as I see it: the Kingdom of God in the Christian era, and is to be interpeted real and historical, yet consisting of spiritually reborn believers in the present world, but not of the present world. In Revelation this heavenly Kingdom and "Rule with Christ" of believers is described: "Thousand Years This The First Resurrection". Both "Thousand Years" and "This The First Resurrection" are figures of or metaphors for the one and only Kingdom of God of all time, but, since and under Jesus Christ the Resurrected Mediator who now 'in heaven' on behalf of those His Elect People here on earth, "before God appears" --- which He ever before His incarnation also did, but not in the Person of the Son of God "come in the flesh" from the dead. Now He can intercede for man in a capacity not before the case. This is 'a-mill', with complements.
     
    #12 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Nov 12, 2008
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  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Ed Edwards:
    "The Lord has Three Kingdoms. I am a saved-by-Jesus Person so I'm in two of those Kingdoms."


    GE:
    The Lord has One, "everlasting", Kingdom -- He is only one Lord, after all. Never has his Kingdom been wrested from his hand! But God's Kingdom is of three stages - three earthly stages.

    1) before Christ incarnated and in the flesh come from the dead;
    2) after Christ incarnated and in the flesh come from the dead;
    3) after Christ incarnated and in the flesh come from the dead shall have come again.

    Throughout the first two stages, the Kingdom of God has always, and always will, consist in both the historical and 'literal' form of God's Elect, and the just as historical and real, yet 'spiritual' dimension of the regenerated believing 'saints' of God's Kingdom without end --- those who yet in the flesh on earth are saved-by-Jesus-Person, so are in two respects of God's Kingdom, citizens of it.

    There never ever will be a stage or respect in which God's Kingdom will be other than His "Kingdom-On-Earth-As-It-Is-Heaven". God is One; His Kingdom, is one.
     
    #13 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Nov 12, 2008
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  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    After how many discussions, I think I may say that I begin to distinguish the basic mistakes in your 'eschatology', Ed Edwards, if I may so say.
    Which is, that you place another Gospel-yet-to-come after 'the Second Coming' of Christ; You give some sinners, a 'second chance' for repentance and things like that. You created a second 'Great Contorversy' after Jesus must have brought an end to it (supposedly).

    Then you grasp from the air some sort of 'in heaven' existence of God's Kingdom. Very intricate, incomprehensible stuff --- to me and I think to any other normal person.


    But cut these two surmisings from your 'eschatology', and I think you will also class yourself under the 'a-mills'.
     
    #14 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Nov 12, 2008
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  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    God's Kingdom upon the earth-as-it-is-in-heaven is just as strange - just as scares - and inexplicable, as true Sabbath-keeping upon the earth and among men. It is a reality that cannot easily - or maybe at all - be pinpointed: here, or there; but it is and is true, here and there, now, upon the earth among God's People!

    I hear my bokmakierie is singing 'Amen' outside! How gracious and good and merciful is my God!
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    // God is One; His Kingdom, is one. //

    Amen, Brother Gerhard Ebersoehn -- Preach it! :thumbs:

    God is One in three persons:
    1. God the Father
    2. God the Son (Messiah Jesus)
    3. God the Holy Spirit

    God's Kingdom is one in three Earthly phases:
    GE: // 1) before Christ incarnated and in the flesh come from the dead;
    2) after Christ incarnated and in the flesh come from the dead;
    3) after Christ incarnated and in the flesh come from the dead shall have come again. //

    Ed notes that he generally calls the phases:
    1) Yisrael Kingdom Dispensation
    2) Church Age Dispensation mostly gentile Elect Saints (AKA: Time of the Gentiles, Age of Grace)
    3) Millennial Messianic Kingdom Age Dispensation
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    I really find it hard to believe you understand what I'm saying (I really haven't said even 10% of what I want to say)???

    The gospel is the same in all three of the aforementioned Age/dispensation:

    1) Yisrael Kingdom Dispensation
    ---- Saved by Jesus, those who believe that Messiah is coming

    2) Church Age Dispensation mostly gentile Elect Saints (AKA: Time of the Gentiles, Age of Grace)
    ----- Saved by Jesus, those who believe Messiah Jesus has come

    3) Millennial Messianic Kingdom Age Dispensation
    ---- Saved by Jesus, after making Jesus, the Messiah, their Lord

    -- Salvation is the same in every Dispensation (NOT taught by most dispensation teachers)
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:
    Well, Ed Edwards, if this what you believe - with two uncertainties remaining - then between your view and mine, there absolutely nothing is different!

    The two 'uncertainties', are:
    1) Your numbers 2 and 3 above: are they in time consecutive, or do they span the same time-period?

    Which brings into play the next,

    2) What about your teaching of a - as I understand you - physical, 'rapture' --- like the Seventh Day Adventists, who say all the saved ones will "go to heaven" - physically taken off the earth to 'heaven' - where they will be for a thousand literal, earthly, year-cycles?
     
    #18 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Nov 13, 2008
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  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    The 'millennial' age, is now, stretching from Christ's 'first coming', to His 'second coming'; it will be finished, and not beginning, when Christ will return.

    This, I believe; this, the Church General, and Protestant and Reformed, believes. I believe nothing else or against it, but deny and reject everything else and against it. I will not even try to understand anything against it --- although I perfectly do understand it: for what it is: Error!
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    EdEdwards:
    "I really find it hard to believe you understand what I'm saying (I really haven't said even 10% of what I want to say)???"


    GE:
    If somebody else than you should find it hard to understand you, it can only mean you do not understand what you're saying yourself.

    God's truth can be understood by anyone of normal intellectual capacity or of even of below normal developement, because the Kingdom of God belongs to children -- from the mouth of the King of that Kingdom.

    So, first get your things simplified; before you could expect us mere mortals to believe you, dear Ed Edwards!
     

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