Three more down!

Discussion in 'Sports' started by EdSutton, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. EdSutton

    EdSutton
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    Three head coaches down in the SEC, as I type this -

    First - Philip Fulmer, at Tennesee, a proven winner in arguably the toughest conference in the country, from top to bottom, on a year by year basis, by winning at a 74.5% rate with 7 Division titles won or shared; 2 Conference titles and an undefeated National Championship (1998) over 16 1/3 seasons. 8-7 in Bowls, as well, with 14 straight Bowl appearances, including one loss for the National Title in 1997.

    Second, Sylvester Croom, at Mississippi State. Granted here, one good season out of five, even winning a bowl game, does not a great coach make, where there is a 35.6% winning percentage, however.

    Now Tommy Tuberville, at Auburn, also a proven winner over 14 seasons in the SCE, with 4 at Ole Miss, and 10 at Auburn, at an overall 64% rate with a 68% rate at Auburn (Ole Miss was under severe sanctions when TT arrived) with 5 Division titles won or shared in the 20 years at Auburn, a Conference title in an undefeated year (2004), and a 6-3 Bowl record, including 8 straight.

    I have not heard of anything against any of them, on a personal manner, and one might note that all three were named as the head coach in a less than pristine situation.
    '
    And while "the jury may still be out" on the head coaching abilities of Sylvester Croom, this certainly does not seem to be the case where either Philip Fulmer or Tommy Tuberville are concerned.

    Anyone out there need a proven coach?? I can suggest a few names, from the last couple of years who might have an interest, in the right situation. Let's see, off the top of my head, I can think of at least four who have a pretty good winning percentage, an undefeated season, and three of which have a National title. There's Larry Coker, Lloyd Carr, Philip Fulmer, and now Tommy Tuberville, for just a start.

    Ed
     
  2. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
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    This is one of the thing I don't care for in college sports, and the amount of players who aren't ready for study, and don't do much but get by as long as they play well for a while and the amount of players who have run in with the law. As long as the school wins on the field the money backers will keep the money coming in.

    Tommy and Philip have good buy outs and don't have to worry about how they are going to make it for their next meal, but it is hard on the assistant coaches as well as the family of the head coach who is run out.

    Auburn wanted Tommy out a few years ago, but his team didn't lose a game that year, I believe. Many a Ga. fan wanted Vince Dooley out before he gave up the job and over at FSU many want Bobby out.

    Fans can be crazy. I recall early in his time at NC the fans wanted Dean Smith run out of town. Joe B. Hall and Tubby Smith had their problems at UK.
     
  3. Salty

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    Coach Robinson of Syracuse was fired 3 weeks ago, but did coach the last two games. He beat Notre Dame, but lost the final to Cincinnati.

    He will still be paid about 1 million for the last year of his contract for '09
     
  4. TomVols

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    No way Carr will ever coach again. Just not likely. He underachieved way too much. Fulmer will be able to coach again, and Tuberville can name his job. Problem with the last two is they hired questionable OCs that ruined their seasons. Had Fulmer not hired Rick Clawson and Tuberville hired Tony Franklin, they'd still have their jobs. True, the plains people wanted Tuberville for years. This year they got their excuse. I hope they're happy. It's official: The entire state of Alabama is crazy.
     
  5. EdSutton

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    Well, I agree it is not likely that Lloyd Carr will ever coach again, or evne want to.

    He is already 63 years old. Underachieved? Don't think so, except for some unreal expectations. He won better than 75% of his games over his career, putting him slightly ahead of Phil Fulmer, here (and 10 points ahead of Tommy Tuberville, as well and for comparison, Steve Spurrier has a career WP of 73% and for other comparison, is well ahead of such as Frank Beamer, and trails Urban Meyer by a point or two.). He had a national title, and an undefeated season, to boot, and was in a bowl game every year at Michigan, never having a losing season, won five conference championships, was 2nd four times and third three times in 13 years with his worst record being 7-5 in 2005 counting a bowl loss. Incidentally, his worst conference finish was a lone 5th which he followed up the next year with an undefeated season and National championship. BTW, Les Miles, the one many clamored for to replace him has about a 65% winning percentage, and Rich Rodriguez is also fast finding out that Jim Tressel and old Joe Pa can still coach the game pretty well.

    Considering that Jim Tressel has won five national championships (4 in !-AA) and Joe Paterno has won a couple of titles as well, plus found himself out in the cold 4 times with undefeated tems, including two time in a row, is anyone surprised that Joe Pa can still coach, even if on an artificial hip?? Or that Rich Rodrigeuz is finding out the hard way, about real-life in the Big House??

    Incidentally, for the Tuberville haters, Nick Saban's college winning % is almost exactly the same as Tommy Tuberville's was at Auburn.

    I'm not surprised by any of this, frankly.

    BTW, Phil Fulmer is already 58 years old, as well, Larry Coker is 60, Steve Spurrier is 63, and Frank Beamer is 64. So those four, while not yet in the class with Bobby Bowden or Joe Pa, are not exactly still wet behind the ears, I would say. Tommy Tuberville is a relative baby at 54, by contrast.

    As a Kentuckian, I love it that the Orange have hired a coach that has won 25% of his games, as a head coach. Maybe we will get the losing to the Volunteers in football out of our system, next year.

    Ed
     
    #5 EdSutton, Dec 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2008
  6. menageriekeeper

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    I have to agree and I live here!!!!
     
  7. TomVols

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    I've been hearing that for two decades!!! The best you can hope for is to steal one against the Vols in basketball this year and then look up at us in the standings.

    With all due respect to the man for being an East Tennessean, here are the major knocks against Carr. Carr could not win big games. Michigan notably plays the "Mich tour" which regularly includes games against the directional Michigan Schools, MAC powerhouses, etc. By all accounts, Fulmer has played tougher schedules and you could argue playing in a tougher conference. Five seasons with at least four losses. Only once did his teams not lose at least twice. The 1997 NC is debated and shared with NEB. 6-7 against Ohio St.

    Carr has never been considered as a candidate for any job. Fulmer is being considered and it is very likely that, should he want a job, he'll get one in the next two years. And Fulmer vs. Carr? the 2002 Capital One Bowl had Fulmer's Vols blowing out Carr's UM team 41-17.

    I don't deny that expectations were unreal for both men.
     
  8. EdSutton

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    Ed sez:
    TomVols sez:
    Well, UK does currently have the ignoble distinctions of having the longest losing streak against a conference opponent (Tennessee) as well as the second longest, as well, against Florida. Frankly, I still think I like UK's chances against Lane Kiffin better than I did against Phil Fulmer, or do going against Urban Meyer.

    And I gotta' admit, I'd rather be in the shoes of either Billy G. or Bruce P. at home, than on the road. I'm reminded of something that the then Vols BB coach, Don DeVoe said when someone mentioned that UK's BB teams had won like maybe one time against him in Knoxville, as a put-down against the then UK Coach, whoever it was. DeVoe replied, "Well you gotta' remember, I haven't had a lot of success in Rupp, either." (He'd won 3 times there out of 16 including a couple against less than stellar UK teams, at that time.) This was merely saying how difficult it is in the SEC in BB to win on the road against a half-way good team.

    I'm fully aware of the 'knocks' against Lloyd Carr. I just think they are wrong, in this, just as I think that Phil Fulmer sorta' got the shaft, as well. I recall the analysis of one who stated that Phil Fulmer was the best college coach in the country. While I might not go that far, I believe I would definitely place him in or near the Top Ten! And, as bad as I hate to say it, I would still place Lloyd Carr in at least the Top Twenty, or so, among the 125 current and former Div. I coaches, with both Carr and Fulmer, for their careers, ahead of anyone UK has had over the last 40 years, since Blanton Collier [with the remotely possible exceptions of Jerry Caliborne (for the accomplishments of his players off the field, and in the classroom, moreso than those on the field), and Rich Brooks] and who was faced with unreal expectations, himself. However, Coach Collier showed his real ability in coaching the Cleveland Browns, after that. He also showed what UK had let get away, by what followed him!

    BTW, I do think their buy-out/bonuses at the end of their coaching jobs will manage to keep both of them off the soup-lines for another year or so, anyway. (Phil Fulmer, like me, could probably still survive missing a meal or two, anyway.) :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
    #8 EdSutton, Dec 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2008
  9. TomVols

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    True. UK's losing streak to TN is the longest in the nation (one team against another). You may be right. No one fears Kiffin right now...for now.
    True. Coach DeVoe is a good man. I've sat next to him at a couple of games Pearl's first year. He's a genuinely nice guy. Very old school.

    As for Carr, I don't deny he had some success. Certainly bested anyone before him not named Bo. I do think he got the shaft at Michigan because of the idiotic fan base up there. But the frustration was based on a very real perception that, given the talent that's come through Ann Arbor, they should have had more success. It's the same perception for Phil at UT, although I firmly believe that the talent level hasn't been the same in Knoxville in years. Problem with raising expectiations: you're expected to meet them. When you win something like 45 games in 4 years, you create lofty expectations. When these aren't met in subsequent years, there are issues.

    Thanks for bringing up Claiborne. I liked him. I remember Johnny Majors talking about having to out-scheme him :)

    Note on Fulmer's employment. Today he accepted a three month "special asst to the President" position. We'll see what happens in February. Rumors are flying that two schools are after him. Stay tuned.
     
  10. EdSutton

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    I fully agree that Don DeVoe is a class act.

    Ed
     
  11. EdSutton

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    Not that I expect Rich Brooks to retire, but he is already 67 years old.

    Should he retire, I would like to see KY go for Phil Fulmer, first.

    There'd be a real 'Kick in the head' around Rocky Top (that rumbling sound your hear is Gen. Neyland turning over in his grave), when the Blue and White of KY then would beat the Big Orange of Lane Kiffin, there, I'd say. And that would give Mark Richt, Steve Spurrier, and Urban Meyer something to look forward to, as well.

    Ed
     
    #11 EdSutton, Dec 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2008

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