Is the eternal state endless time or an absence of time? William Ames (1576-1655) was one of the foremost of Reformed thinkers, often known as "the Learned Doctor Ames" because of his great intellectual stature among Puritans, said: "Thereis properly only one act of the will in God because in Him all things are simultaneous and there is nothing before or after. So there is only decree about the end and means, but for the manner of understanding we say that, so far as intention is concerned, God wills the end before the means." (William Ames, The Marrow of Theology, translation and introduction by John,Dystra, Eudsen, [Boston: The Pilgrim Press, 1968], 153-154). John Wesley (1703-1791) is largely credited, along with his brother Charles Wesley, as founding the Methodist movement said the following: "God foreknew those in every nation those who would believe, from the beginning of the world to the consummation of all things. but, in order to throw light upon this dark question, it should be well observed, that when we speak of God’s foreknowledge, we do not speak according to the nature of things, but after the manner of men. For, if we speak properly, there is no such thing as either foreknowledge or afterknowledge in God. All time, or rather all eternity, (for the children of men,) being present to him at once, he does not know one thing in one point of view from everlasting to everlasting. As all time, with everything that exists therein, is present with him at once, so he sees at once, whatever was is, or will be, to the end of time" (John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, 1771, Second Series, On Predestination, Sermon #58; Christian Classics Ethereal Library). Are these men right or wrong?