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Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by KenH, Jun 13, 2002.
There is a fascinating article at:
I love it when Christians write articles dealing with what Jews will and will not do based on New Testament principles.
Come on guys. THis guy who wrote this article is way off base. The Jews do not base their actions on Jesus or New Testament theology.
The rebuilding of the temple has absolutely nothing at all to do with salvation of the church or anything to do with the gospel.
The Jews do not accept our beliefs so it is very logical that they will want to return one day to temple worship, animal sacrifices and the lot.
They really have been building towards this and yes the Bible does prophecy this.
God will things and allows things to happen to bring about his plans and purposes whether it makes sense to us as Christians or not.
It won't be because God is leading the Jews to do this but because they have never given up the idea of returning to the fullness of Judaism.
With the way we view animals in the 21st Century and the influence of animal rights activists, I don't see animal sacrifices ever happening again. Even non-animal rights people would see that as barbaric, in my opinion.
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
If we accept that Isreal is a Nation, and that the Nation of Isreal will approve animal sacrifice then who is to stop it? Look how many courtries have problems with Human Rights and we do little or nothing to stop it. Do you really think anyone would start a war over animal rights?
I am not endorsing animal cruelty, but just looking at it logicaly.
It makes absolutely no sense to me!... Why would God reinstitute the rebuilding of the temple and the ordinances of animal sacrifices?... All were types and shadows that pointed us to the true temple and sacrifice Jesus Christ! The scriptures state... Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not but a body hast thou prepared me.
Do a through study of the Old Testament Temple structure and worship service this was all filled in Jesus Christ! The Law and the Prophets were until John since then the kingdom of heaven is preached and every man presseth into it!... All of it was done away by being fulfilled by Jesus Christ our High Priest!... Brother Glen
Ken as a continuous scholar of church history that article was right on the mark... Brother Glen
(head banging on brick wall again--can't find the smiley for it, reaching for Tylenol Extra Strength)
Bro. Glen, God is not going to reinstitute the above. The Jews will do it, the nation of Israel. God just let us know it was going to happen in prophecy. That doesn't mean He reinstitutes anything. (sigh)
Eaglelives 911 bear to differ... Build it according to the pattern showed thee in the mount!... God instructing Moses!... God designs it and Moses and the children of Israel build it from everything thing God told him to put in it. Shape, size, material... All selected by God!... Brother Glen
Agreed, in the OT, that is how it was, God instructed Moses.
But your question was why would God reinstitute these things? My reply is that God is NOT reinstituting, man is.
Just notice the way the world community reacts when they think that Israel is violating the human rights of Palestinians, even though they don't always react that way toward other countries that they think are violating human rights.
Also, notice the way people react when we discover or suspect that Satanists are doing animal sacrifices. And I am concerned at the inroads that groups like PETA might make toward using animals for food. Just think of the outcry of such groups if animal sacrifices started being made with the sanction of a government.
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
As Eagle 911 stated and I think you have failed to grasp, I was stating that the rebuilding of the temple will be a Jewish decision not a God decision.
I cannot fathom why you cannot understand that the Jews are not Christians. They do not accept that Jesus was the Messiah. They do not accept the doctrine of Grace. They do not believe salvation is available to the Gentiles. They are in their beliefs still under Judaic laws and rituals and temple worship is part of that.
Why is there so much animosity between the Jews and the Muslims over the temple mount?
WE cannot say that Just because everything was finalized in Calvary that the Jews accept this. They do not.
Animals are put to sleep all the time at Human Society locations and animal pounds. This is euthanasia. What the Jews will be doing is part of their worship and no one will tell them that they cannot offer animal sacrifices. There really is no difference from them slaughtering animals for burnt offerings and us doing it for food.
Somebody needs to read Romans 11 and understand where you stand lest ye fall!
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Now if you are going to try to convince me after all that, that these are not Gods redeemed blood bought children?... They are all in the covenant of grace and mercy... The scriptures state you are in gross error and this chapter of Romans 11 proves it!... If it doesn't I will print this page and eat it!... Brother Glen
Oh, really. I disagree. At least we eat animals for food, which groups like PETA rail against more and more. Imagine what the reaction would be if this slaughter took place in the name of religion, not for nourishment but to repeat acts that as Christians we know are no longer valid and effective.
This is one Christian who would certainly speak out against animal sacrifices. In the 21st Century such actions as animal sacrifices would be barbaric and and unBiblical, to put it mildly.
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
Were it not for grace...
Ken are you telling me that Christians won't favor a little animal sacrifice to fulfill prophecy? That is what all you millenium brethren believe... isn't it?
Sacrifice and offerings thou wouldest not but a body hast thou prepared me!... Brother Glen
Interesting article, I agree with much of it.
I do not go for "replacement" theology, and I don't thing God is finished with ethnical Jews yet, but I think *far* too much interest and focus is placed on the Jew and the possibility of them building a temple. I think those who are looking for the Jews to build a temple are missing the point. Here is a short post I wrote several months ago:
Recently I see, both here and on other forums, quite a bit of discussion on the Jewish temple, the corner stone, the TMF, etc. This concerns me.
If you are waiting for the third temple, carefully read 1 Cor 3:16-17, 1 Cor 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16, Eph 2:21 and Rev 3:12.
I believe, because of those verses, that the body of believers literally is the "temple of God" (1 Cor 3:16-17, 1 Cor 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16, Eph 2:21). I don't think Paul is simply making a comparison, but making a point.
There is more going on in those verse than just a teaching to make us say "Oh, I better not have that cigarrette, cause my body is *a* temple". Those verses teach that the body of believers as a plurality is "the" temple. The bricks have been replaced with people. In those verses, the "you" is *always* plural, and "the temple" is *always* singular. The verses do not teach that we are each "a" temple, but that all together we are "the" temple. God will no longer dwell in temples made with hands (Acts 17:23), and ever since the veil was rent in twain in the old stone temple (Mark 15:38) the old way has been made obsolete (Heb 8:13) replaced with a new and living way (Heb 10:19-22). We are told that *Christ himself* will build the temple (Zec 6:12-13) from which he will reign as priest and king (which numerous verses say he already is) and that people will come into it (which happens every time someone accepts salvation). It has already happened, although I believe it will still reach its fullest culmination at his return.
All the talk of future stone temples (which may be possible but will never be a temple "of God" but rather a temple of men) although interesting to some, misses the bigger truth. The ultimate temple is already here. We are in it and part of it. We already have a corner stone in place (Eph 2:20), the temple is growing (Eph 2:21), and it is God's habitation (Eph 2:22). Jews may place a granite corner stone, but only because they'll still be stumbling over the real one (1 Pet 2:8).
Anyone interested in studying the "temple" throughout scripture needs to seriously consider these passages and realize the implications of what is taught in them.
Very well put Brian!... Can't argue with that!... What a beautiful picture when viewed with spiritual eyes!... Brother Glen
Excellent Post BrianT......Ditto
PETA and other groups might protest, but I can't see how it can be stopped. Look at all the things that are protested in this courtry but contine to be done.
People protest abortion, but abortion still takes place.
People protest homosexuality, but homosexuality still takes place.
People protest cruelity to animals, but cruelity still takes place.
The only way to stop it would be to wipe Isreal off the map. First off enough people already want to do just that, and they really don't need another reason to justify their desire. Secondly, I seriously doubt that GOD would allow anyone to wipe Isreal from the face of the earth.
These actions you mention are because people have some sort of pleasure that these actions help to perpetrate - immorality, pleasure in harming others, etc. Animal sacrifices would go back to a practice from 2000 years ago. And I would hope that people in the 21st Century would have enough common sense to totally reject such nonsense as barbaric, even if there are a few people in the world who might ignore the plight of the animals so abused, due to their eschatological agenda.
I would hope all Christians would be united in opposing animal sacrifices, and I am confident the vast majority would.
"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." - Abraham Lincoln
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
Were it not for grace...
If memory serves, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled only recently that animal sacrifices are legal in the USA in a case involving Santeria in Florida. Also, Satanist practice animal sacrifices here. And I have read that certain Hindu groups in India believe in animal sacrifices. There are probably others. Man has dominion over the animals.
One main argument supporting the construction of the Third Temple is that it is described by Ezekiel beginning in Chapter 40. No Temple has ever been built to those specifications. The Jews, having rejected Jesus, want to build a Temple for Messiah. If Messiah is to rule for one thousand years in Jerusalem, which I believe that He will, then He will use the Third Temple even though it will have been constructed by Jewish hands for a wrong reason. The Anti-Christ will defile the Third Temple, as you know.