Tithe or pay off debt?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by AF Guy N Paradise, Jun 16, 2006.

  1. AF Guy N Paradise

    AF Guy N Paradise
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    I won't try to get too personal here, but what would you suggest in the following scenario?

    IMO, we have way too much debt and as I listen to Dave Ramsey and others I feel convicted and God can't be too pleased as well.

    We currently tithe and also give extra to a former church and to a another missionairy. Since God doesn't need our money anyway, do you think He would rather have us debt free (minus the mortgage) and not pay tithe or to keep tithing and doing the best we can with our debt situation? All inputs welcomed.

    I am also thinking about getting a 2nd passive income if possible just to attack the debt. But then, I would also feel obligated to tithe that amount. Thanks...
     
  2. FBCPastorsWife

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    Hey AF Guy!

    I personally would continue to tithe. My husband and I have always found that we can do more on 90% than we can on 100%.

    So what would the 2nd job be? The classic Dave Ramsey pizza delivery program? :D
     
  3. James_Newman

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    I would recommend you discuss it with your pastor.
     
  4. saturneptune

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    AF,
    If you can manage it, I think it would be a good idea to do both. I would tithe, cut back on life style, and put what you can towards the debt, maybe get a second job. I am one to talk because of my past history, but debt out of control is very destructive. There is not one thing in the Bible that condones or encourages debt. (except a debt of love). You sound like you got it together, and am sure you and God will work it out. God bless you in all you do.
     
  5. LeBuick

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    I agree... Give and it shall be given unto you...
     
  6. Paul1611

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    I agree with FBCPastorsWife. I too have found that God allows us to do more with 90% than we can with 100%. I talked to a retired pastor a while back and he testified that he strongly believed in giving to God first and he has never lacked anything, God has always met his needs even when it didnt make mathematical sense.

    I too can personaly testify that God blesses the tithe. Me and my wife came under some convinction about the debt we were in and decided that we wanted to do something about it. We too thought about taking our tithe and paying off some debt, but decided we wouldnt, and I believe we made the correct decision. As of right now I have a mortgage that I would like to get paid off early. We also have had to have a new roof, hot water heater, pump for the well, entire new septic system and drainfield, and a new central air conditioning unit, not to mention a very expensive water condioner, over the past few years, and God has allowed us to pay cash for all of it. Now I am not one of these "prosperity, God wants everybody rich, pretty, happy, and healthy preachers", but God has blessed our efforts in trying to get out of debt, and we didnt stop giving our tithe. But let me add that we werent out here going on big vacations a couple of times a year, and buying designer clothes, and trying to keep up with the neighbors either. We tried to conserve our money and pay the bills that we owed. And one of the best choices we made was to cut up every credit card we had, cancel the accounts, and not sign up for any new ones. And I am the only income for our home, my wife stays at home and homeschools our children. God still blesses.
     
  7. James_Newman

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    Thats a good testimony, Paul1611. I would have to add an amen to that. God has been faithful to provide what I need, if not always what I want ;)
     
  8. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
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    Someone asked CH Mackintosh the same question...here was his answer...

    "A. B." You ask, "Is it right for Christians who are in debt to give money for benevolent purposes?" Most assuredly not. We must be just before we are generous. If I am in debt, I have no right to give money in charity. Were I to do so, there would at least be, as another has said, a measure of honesty in my writing on the back of whatever I bestow, these words, "Borrowed from my creditors without their consent." But, dear friend, we should go very much further than this. We believe that, as a rule, Christians should not go in debt at all. "Owe no man anything" is a precept so plain, that the wayfaring man, though a fool, need not err therein. We do not here enter upon the question of how far persons engaged in trade can carry out this holy and happy rule. There are certain terms upon which the manufacturer sells to the warehouseman, and the warehouseman sells to the shopkeeper, such, for instance, as, "Cash in a month," or the like, and so long as these terms are observed, it may be questioned how far one is actually in debt. We believe that it would be far safer and better, in every way, for persons in trade, to pay cash, and take the discount. And, unquestionably, a man is in debt, if his stock in trade and the debts due to him are not amply sufficient to meet all liabilities. It is a poor, hollow, worthless, unprincipled thing for a man to traffic with fictitious capital, to live by a system of "kite-flying," to be making a show at his creditor's expense. We fear there is a deplorable amount of this sort of thing even amongst those who occupy the very highest platform of profession. As to persons living in private life, there is no excuse whatever for their going into debt. What right have I, before God or man, to wear a coat or a hat not paid for? What right have I to order a ton of coals, a pound of tea, or a joint of meat, if I have not the money to pay for it, It may be said, what are we to do? The answer is plain to an upright mind and a tender conscience, we are to do without rather than go in debt. It is infinitely better, happier, and holier to sit down to a crust of bread and a cup of water paid for, than to roast meat for which you are in debt. But, alas! dear friend, there is a sad lack of conscience and sound principle as to this important question. People go on, from week to week, taking their places at the Lord's Table, making the highest profession, talking of high and holy principles, and all the while they are over head and ears in debt, living far beyond their income, taking food and raiment on credit from any one who will trust them, and knowing in their hearts that they have no reasonable prospect of being able to pay. Surely this is most grievous and dishonouring. Indeed, we do not hesitate to pronounce it practical unrighteousness, and we most solemnly warn the Christian reader against all such loose and unprincipled conduct. We have seen a great deal of it latterly, and we can only regard it as one of the many bitter fruits of the spirit of Antinomianism so rife at the present moment. Oh for a tender conscience and an upright mind!

    http://www.stempublishing.com/authors/mackintosh/Ans/ANSWERS2.html
     
  9. Hope of Glory

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    I have mixed feelings on this, as well. I was counselling someone recently, though, who was even further in debt than this. Due to medical bills, she is going to have to file bankruptcy. It is too much for her to pay off, even if she were to work 24/7. What advice do I give her?

    I think this is where grace comes into play.

    But, I would say that paying off the debt first, then giving to the Lord is the way he would want it.

    But, this goes hand-in-hand with living within your means and differentiating between luxury and necessity from here on out.
     
  10. ituttut

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    Render unto Caesar, but also yourselves, and are worse than infidels if you don't. But there is to be a limit in our appetites, whether it is drink, food, housing, transportation, clothing, etc. It is impossible today for most of us to be without any debt.

    From your post you don't seem to be in too much trouble. If you are not overextended I wouldn't worry about it. If you can live with your debt, and do your benevolent giving also, I would say God is most likely happy with the way you are handling "His and Your" money.

    For those that believe a tithe is today set in stone, and commanded, I have no problem for we all endeavor to do what we have been shown. I believe Christ Jesus spoke and revealed to Paul His wishes for we in the Body of Christ Church. Paul says, "if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not", II Corinthians 8:12.

    We are fortunate, and give because we wish to give, and it is more than 10 percent. We both have been retired for a good many years. We just bought a new car. We are in debt again after many years without any debt. This is not sinful for transportation today is a necessity.

    I don't know what your debts are, but if causing anxiety with money being tight, pay off the debt, for peace of mind. There is no one more understanding than our God.
     
  11. PrimePower7

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    A quick question

    I understand your concern about doing the right thing.

    Given that the Apostle Paul was the primary spokesman to the church in this age, why don't you see if he says anything about tithing?

    Use a concordance or computer Bible searcher to find everything the Bible says the NT churchmember should do about tithing. HINT: Romans-Philemon are written to churches or pastors of churches. You can even check the ministry of the church in Acts for the same thing. So do a search from Acts to Philemon on "tithing".
     
  12. ituttut

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    Excellent PrimePower7
     

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