Tithes and the new Covenant

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by fgm, Jul 3, 2003.

  1. fgm

    fgm
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    Is tithing REQUIRED under the new covenant? I know why the tithe was instituted under the old covenant.
     
  2. KenH

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    2 Cor. 9:6-15 (ESV)
    [6]The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. [7] Each one must give as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. [8] And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. [9] As it is written,

    "He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor;
    his righteousness endures forever."

    [10] He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness. [11] You will be enriched in every way for all your generosity, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God. [12] For the ministry of this service is not only supplying the needs of the saints, but is also overflowing in many thanksgivings to God. [13] By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others, [14] while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God upon you. [15] Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!
     
  3. Xenos

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    I am assuming when you say the old covenant that you are speaking of the Mosaic Covenant when the laws of God were written.

    Or, are you speaking of the Abrahamic Covenant when tithing was first mentioned?

    The principal of tithing or firstfruits giving is well taught through the entire Bible. As well as bountiful and cheerful giving as mentioned aforehand. I would be afraid to come under the tenth or tithe. [​IMG]

    Happy Valley Baptist Bible College
     
  4. John Wells

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    "Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury; for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on" (Mark 12:42-44).

    Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:6-7)

    The Christian today is not under the theocratic government of Israel, where tithing supported the government, priesthood, and synagog. From NT teachings on giving, we are called to be "a cheerful giver" who gives more than our "surplus." That might mean more than 10% for some and less than 10% for others, depending on their income and circumstances.
     
  5. Michael Estes

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    No, it's not required of us. But you won't catch too many pastors saying that. After all, Lincoln's DO use a lot of gas.
     
  6. gb93433

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    There are those who would support a graduated tithe. The point is that as your wages increase and the difference between you expenses and wages increase your giving should also increase. But I know of one man who started giving 20 percent of his income when he bacame a Christian. But later gave 90 percent of his income. God had blessed him and he became a very wealthy businessman.

    Giving is the issue not how much. Remember who Jesus comended for giving?
     
  7. Ben W

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    No it is not required today. What those who promote tithing dont tell you is that when it is mentioned in the Old Testament it is three Tithes of ten percent and not always in money.

    The 10% tithe in the modern church is a false teaching with absolutley no support in the New Testament. For some 10% is to much, and for others it is an excuse to not be giving what they should to Gods work.
     
  8. Sola-Scriptura

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    Amen, Ben, Michael, and John. Let's live in the New Covenant where we are supposed to be. [​IMG]
     
  9. superdave

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    We as the Church are not under any covenant relationship if you want to compare the Church to Israel.

    The church and Israel are two separate entities, each with different specific requirements and obligations to God, although the foundation is the same. Both are saved from wrath only by the work of Christ, Israel looking forward to the messiah, and the Church looking back at the finished work.

    Giving in the New Testament, and in the entire Dispensation of Grace is characterized by a cheerful and generous spirit, not by a specific amount or percentage. I would not be "afraid" to fall below 10%, I would be afraid to be in a position where I was not being a good steward, or placing material possessions in a more important place in my budget than the work of God.
     
  10. TomVols

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    Can someone show where tithing was abrogated by direct NT teaching? People assume this, but I've yet to see proof.
     
  11. JesusisGod2

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    Amen Ben W, God doesn't want us to neglect our bills or our family in order to "give our 10%"

    as you have said, some cant afford 10% and yet some can afford 50% and some none. Ask God and he will give us direction on how much we should give.

    as far as new testament teachings on tithing all it really says is we are to give with a cheerful heart and actually we are to give all we have as they did in the book of acts.

    in other words make it all available to God and God will richly bless us in return.

    not that God would ever call you to give up everything like he did the rich man but then again He might but He promises to not take us beyond what we can't handle. this is a tough teaching and one I am learning to do myself.

    I never thought I could afford to give what I give to the church, but it never seems to amaze me how much I really dont miss that money and as a matter of fact have been blessed by giving.

    its not that God needs our money, but I believe the reason God wants us to give in the first place is to free us of the dependence upon money any turn our trust to depend on Him and Him only.
     
  12. Johnv

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    Tithing is not required for the Christian, any more than going to church is, or feeding the poor is, or taking communion is, or being baptized is. However, doing these things are acts of obedience to God.
     
  13. Johnv

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    True, but many who "can't afford" 10% are in debt by choice (excessive credit card spending, etc). That's not God's fault, it's ours, resulting from our love of money. I used to be one of those folks. I learned over time that I must live within my means. My rule is that, if I can't afford to give 10% of my first fruits to God, then I'm living outside my means. So, here's my rule:

    10% to God (usually, but not always, my church)
    10% to savings
    80% to bills and spending.

    If, at the end of my spending 80%, I have money left over, then it gets split: 1/2 to the principal of my mortgage, 1/4 to God, and 1/4 to savings. I don't have any credit cards to pay down, and I don't have any outstanding debt besides my house and car payment.
     
  14. KenH

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    One could ask the same thing about lots of Old Testament items. But it appears only the idea of a tithe is a hang-up for some Christians.
     
  15. TomVols

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    One could ask the same thing about lots of Old Testament items. But it appears only the idea of a tithe is a hang-up for some Christians. </font>[/QUOTE]So what is the answer? Yes or no?
     
  16. KenH

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    It's not a matter of whether it was abrogated. It was never inserted into the church.
     
  17. TomVols

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    The didache seems to disagree with you.
     
  18. KenH

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    I didn't know The Didache was Scripture. [​IMG]
     
  19. John Wells

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    Tom,

    Since the tithe was a distinct part of the theocracy of the Jewish nation, funding the government/church, and with the advent of the Christian church founded upon Jesus Christ including non-Jews and non-Israelite citizens, whether the tithe is a carryover from one radically different system to the other renders the burden of proof with the proponent that believes it does! The only place "tithe" appears in the NT is Matthew, Luke, and Hebrews, and references the theocratic system. ;)
     
  20. TomVols

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    Ken, you're missing the point. You seem to be arguing that there's no proof that the church condoned or practiced tithing. This is baseless and not true. Yet too many make your mistake.

    John, you seem to be unnecessarily building too much of a wall between the testaments and the so-called dispensations, as many fall into this trap.

    For some, it seems as if they must see X amount of Biblical/theological justification for tithing to be considered normative or worthy. Yet X is imprecise and nebulous. Jesus' praise of tithing in the Gospels isn't enough. The lack of abrogation isn't enough when clear elements of the OT system were abrogated through clear, systematic teaching.

    While I am Covenantal and not pro-tithe in the modern sense, I am honest enough to realize that, for whatever reason, tithing opponents resort to rather dubious hermeneutics and jump to high flights of logical fallacies in order to justify their arguments.
     

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