tithing??? Should we?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by JeffM, Apr 27, 2004.

  1. JeffM

    JeffM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    My wife and I recently had some financial counseling with our Pastor. The discussion of tithes came up and he said some of the members don't believe in tithes. This surprised me. We pay our 10% to the church every Sunday.

    So I looked into it and found a book called "Lies of the Tithes".

    The author makes a compelling argument that tithing is an Old Testament law and even then, it didn't mean financial tithes, but using the abundance (food) of what God had given you and giving it to the poor and eating it in joyous thanksgiving to the Lord. He compares it too a Father wanting to have his family sit down for dinner in fellowship and love, not have his children pay him money in thanksgiving for all he provides for the household.

    This makes a lot of sense to me. He also says that since Jesus took the law with him to the cross, why would we follow that one single law of the Old Testament and not the rest? Again, this makes sense.

    I am still learning my Bible...does Jesus teach of tithing in the NT?

    Thanks

    Jeff
     
  2. TWade

    TWade
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,968
    Likes Received:
    128
    There are plenty of web sites that cover this topic, (do a search) many adequately discuss that the N.T. doesn't require a tithe of 10%: I'd agree. Usually people think, "Great!, I can lower the amount I give and have more for myself and my family". NOT TRUE! The N.T. requires everything! 100%
    We are stewards of what God has given us. He has given us everything, honor Him.
    My personal feelings are that the poor should give some, the rich should give more. 10% is a starting place.

    I was blessed this past month by a man who asked the deacons for a large sum of money to pay for a new apartment lease. He planned on slowly repaying the "loan" back. He was quite proud of the fact that over the past year, he increased his giving from $1 a week to $5 a week. After examining his finances, and seeing that he was financially in need and not credit-card crazy, we agree to cover his need, and then later, decided we might payoff a loan that he was paying with the idea that he could then begin to tithe. The "payback" would be to the church in giving, not the the deacons fund as a loan. What a blessing to serve.

    We realize that some people get themselves in such bad financial shape that tithing is impossible, but giving honors God and helps us remind ourselves of our need for Him.
     
  4. TWade

    TWade
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
    2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

    This is the NT guidline for giving. Never is the church required to pay a tithe.

    Romans 12 has nothing to do with monetary giving. It is about sanctification. Relating the verse to a requirement above a tithe is not good.
     
  5. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    14,452
    Likes Received:
    0
    There will always be good discussions on the subject of tithing - for and against!

    Let me say this - 10% is a good place to start!
     
  6. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would have to agree with Twade... We must look at the heart. Some are in a situation where they cvan give only 5 % and some could reasonavly give 50%. Give according to your ability and the leading of the Lord. Remember, our Lord gave His all. I have always tithed as a baseline... but not out of legal requirement, out of love.
     
  7. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,968
    Likes Received:
    128
    Only giving 2% of your income will not please God. Giving 10% of your income still isn’t enough. Try giving 12%, will that please God more? What is an acceptable sacrifice? If you’re trying to determine what percentage is acceptable to God, you’re stuck in O.T. law.

    There are no N.T. tithing requirements or percentages: The concept of tithe has changed to our faithful stewardship over what God has given to us. No, Romans 12:1 doesn’t have a thing to do with monetary tithing. God is looking for much more than a percentage of our income. The N.T. "tithe" comes from the heart. It not only includes our money, it includes our time, our work, and our worship. God wants our ALL.

    ”Present your bodies as a living sacrifice.”
    Don’t shortchange God by giving only a percentage of your income.

    Rob
     
  8. TWade

    TWade
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
    What?? Nobody is short-changing anyone.

    You attach "present your bodies as a living sacrifice" with "don't shortchange God by giving only a percentage of your income." You're using Romans 12 to justify your requirement to give more than a tithe. That's wrong. It's wrong to "require" any amount whether above or beyond.

    2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
     
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tithing is middle class America's attempt at robbing God.
     
  10. JeffM

    JeffM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    The argument the author of this book I am reading is making, is tithing is an Old Testament practice, under Old Testament Law. Since Jesus took the law with him to the cross, we are not bound by it.

    He claims it is wrong to take one law from the Old Testament without taking the others. He says that if the modern church wants to abide by one OT law, then they technically should abide by them all. You can't pick or choose just because it might be beneficial.

    The reason this whole subject came up is last year we tithed a little more than 10%. I grew up learning from my Christian grandparents that God will give back and make your cup runneth over and it is one thing he says you can test him on.

    Well, we gave, thinking it was our Christian duty and that we would be financially blessed. I have to admit, it just didn't happen. My businesses entered a dramatic downturn and we started to struggle. My wife, who is a former Catholic, started to doubt everything she had been told as a new Protestant in our new church. We actually entered into financial hardship. All of this happened after I told he that God will bless us. As a new Baptist, she is having a hard time now. I keep telling her that God is building our faith. We need to be faithful that he will provide, regardless of our financial situation. We need to depend on him 100%.

    This is what prompted us to meet with our pastor and the reason why we had questions about the tithe. So, needless to say, I was shocked when he said that some members do not believe in tithing. This was enough to make me investigate.

    What is Jesus's teaching on offerings and tithings?

    Thanks everyone!!

    Jeff
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whether one believes that tithing is mandatory os not, one thing is certain. Avery church member MUST financially support the church. Without that support, one's church would cease to exist. It costs a church so many millions of dollars to pay the mortgage, light bill, clerical & pastoral staff, and the various materials that it takes to run a church and services. Just for you showing up on Sunday, there's an electric bill, a gas bill, and a water bill that is being generated. If you're a member who is not financially supporting your church, that's what we call a moocher.
     
  12. TC

    TC
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    10
    In what way?
     
  13. TWade

    TWade
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
  14. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,454
    Likes Received:
    93
    Are you "middle class?" If not, what is your way of robbing God?
     
  15. JeffM

    JeffM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    I will agree that we need to financially support the material cost of a church, but I can't see calling someone a moocher. I thought God's gift of salvation was free. Jesus already paid the price of that salvation on the cross. Would God call someone a moocher?

    Is church just a physical building or is it the body of Christ? Can there be a church without a building?

    Here in Hawaii, we have several churches that meet on the beach. Calvary Chapel is one. Chairs are brought and members bring their own. No one stands, unless they want to, but they don't need a physical building to call church. There are no electricity bills, or building funds, or other hard cost. But they praise and worship the Lord nonetheless and souls are saved and people are Baptized. People can come a hear the message of salvation free of charge, because it is free from God.

    A physical building is God's property. It's not the pastors, it's not Deacons, or the trustees. It's not even the members. I don't think of God as a landlord demanding money to pay the electricity bills or the mortgage. He certainly doesn't need our money.

    But this doesn't mean I don't want to contribute. But to put a finacial price on a loving Gift from God is wrong to me. I know God loves me no matter what I do or don't do with the money he gave me.

    I tend to think of my relationship with God, as a relationship between a loving father and his children.

    In my house, I give my children allowances. Like God, I expect them to work around the house, and I reward them accordingly. They don't work, no allowance. But aside from allowances, I also give them other things out of a pure, unconditional love I have for them. I want to give them things, even when they don't deserve it. But I don't demand them pay me back 10% as a thanksgiving or contribute to the bills. Their love and respect is enough for me.

    Sure we have rules around the house, but I forgive them when they break those rules because I understand they are incapable of being perfect. They will make mistakes and I will correct them, but severe punishment is usually avoidable. They are also taught that there are consequences for breaking the rules.

    Church is for the sinner and we are all sinners, regardless of how much we give to our church. It's also not our house, but Gods house and he will accept anyone regardless of what they pay or don't pay.

    That is why I love him so much! :D

    Anyway, just my thoughts.

    Jeff
     
  16. TWade

    TWade
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
    What about the poor? Are they "moochers?" Shaming people to give is not the way to go.
     
  17. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was poor once. I fact, I grew up quite poor until I was in high school. My mother always made sure, even in poverty, she put aside 10% for savings and 10% for the church. Some Sundays, it may only have been a few dollars, but she was faithful.
     
  18. JeffM

    JeffM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the key word is faithful. Your Faith is what God wants not your money.

    If God gave back to your mother, I think it was because of her faith, and not the amount she put in the offering tray. This is what makes him a loving God.

    Jeff
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're right, Jeff.

    The point I was making was that my mother did her part, even though it was a small part, to financially support her local church. She didn't use her poverty as a a reason to not put in her share.
     
  20. JeffM

    JeffM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    The problem I am having is the modern church is promoting a feeling that God is like the IRS and demands a portion of our income. Otherwise, we won't get our blessings and we are not "true" Christians.

    I just can't believe this to be true. God is a Loving and Gracious God. We are not required to "do our part". Jesus already paid that price with his Blood.

    I don't mind giving to the church to help pay the bills, but I have comfort knowing God does not demand or expect it. As I said before, he doesn't need our money.
     

Share This Page

Loading...