To Back Mubarak, Or Not? Question of the Month!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by righteousdude2, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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  2. carpro

    carpro
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    I smell a Jimmy Carter act coming on from Obama.

    We are still feeling the effects of Carter's stupidity.
     
  3. KenH

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    From the Declaration of Independence in 1776:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    These words apply to all people, not just we Americans.

    I hope that what is going on results in a representative form of government for the people of Egypt.

    I think that before this year is over that Mubarak will step down from power.
     
  4. righteousdude2

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    Thanks, Brother!

    That is a broad interpretation of the Declaration of Independance, and it is one I never considered. It caused me to think outside of the box and understand why the US is always getting involved in others problems.:1_grouphug:

    Again, thanks!
     
  5. carpro

    carpro
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    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/31/us-egypt-israel-usa-idUSTRE70U53720110131

    If Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak is toppled, Israel will lose one of its very few friends in a hostile neighborhood and President Barack Obama will bear a large share of the blame, Israeli pundits said on Monday.

    Political commentators expressed shock at how the United States as well as its major European allies appeared to be ready to dump a staunch strategic ally of three decades, simply to conform to the current ideology of political correctness

    SNIP

    Writing in Haaretz, Ari Shavit said Obama had betrayed "a moderate Egyptian president who remained loyal to the United States, promoted stability and encouraged moderation."

    To win popular Arab opinion, Obama was risking America's status as a superpower and reliable ally.

    "Throughout Asia, Africa and South America, leaders are now looking at what is going on between Washington and Cairo. Everyone grasps the message: "America's word is worthless ... America has lost it."
     
  6. KenH

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    What should matter in this situation is what advances the liberty of the people of Egypt, not what the Israeli government wants, not what the United States government wants.

    I am tired of our government supporting dictators instead of locking arms with those who want to be free to choose the people who will represent them in their government.

    We should support liberty worldwide and not adopt the attitude of "I want freedom for me but not for thee".
     
  7. carpro

    carpro
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    Idealistic foolishness...but only when it suits you. So when do we "free" the Iranians?

    We are encouraging his overthrow. Is that really in our national interest?

    Instead of actively encouraging his overthrow, can we not let the Egyptian people choose their own way without taking sides?

    Does your idealism allow that?

    Do you not claim to be a libertarian?
     
    #7 carpro, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2011
  8. KenH

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    I have not heard or read where the Obama administration has called for anything other than an orderly process of change in Egypt.

    The liberty of the people of Egypt, or any other country, should not be subservient to what anyone may consider the United States' interest.
     
    #8 KenH, Jan 31, 2011
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  9. KenH

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    From President George W. Bush's second inaugural speech(emphasis mine):

    "America’s vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one. From the day of our Founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this earth has rights, and dignity, and matchless value, because they bear the image of the Maker of Heaven and earth. Across the generations we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave. Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our Nation. It is the honorable achievement of our fathers. Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation’s security, and the calling of our time.

    So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.

    This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary. Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen, and defended by citizens, and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. And when the soul of a nation finally speaks, the institutions that arise may reflect customs and traditions very different from our own. America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom, and make their own way."

    - www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6848112/ns/politics-george_w_bush_the_second_inaugural/
     
    #9 KenH, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  10. tinytim

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    Gasp!!!


    Did Hell just freeze over? KEN quoted W! ROFL
     
  11. KenH

    KenH
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    When a person is correct in something he says, then he is correct even though he may be wrong on other things.
     
  12. carpro

    carpro
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    So I repeat...when do we "free" Iran?

    You have steadfastly defended them and their right to run their own show, but now, not so with Egypt.

    How do you decide which one we should help "free" and which ones we shouldn't?
     
  13. carpro

    carpro
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    A Jimmy Carter move. The result is the same. Calling for an orderly process while condoning mob violence is two faced and dishonest.
     
  14. pinoybaptist

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    How sure is it that if Mubarak goes, the liberty of the people of Egypt is indeed served ?

    Unfortunately, such is the reality of politics.

    Definitely. But if a people allows a dictator to run roughshod on them, it's none of the American people's business. It's their backyard, and their "daddy". If they want change, then they effect it, not the US.
    Here's the bottom line: In the end, the US is the "bad boy" no matter what the US does or doesn't do, say or doesn't say.

    and that is an impression hard to remove as a result of the US' dancing cheek to cheek with ladies in red for decades.
     
  15. KenH

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    Which is what the people of Egypt are apparently working on currently.

    Maybe I have missed it but I have not read or heard anything from the Obama administration saying that we are contemplating invading Egypt and deposing Mubarak.

    The only thing we could do is threaten to end the foreign aid we give to Egypt - something we should do anyway as well as ending all foreign aid to all countries that uses taxpayers' money.
     
  16. KenH

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    We are not invading Egypt. The Egyptian people are working on freeing themselves. If the Iranians want their freedom then they should work on it, too, as they started to a while back and then stopped.

    I don't understand why any freedom-loving American would oppose a popular uprising by people to achieve their freedom from dictatorship.
     
  17. KenH

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    Their liberty is certainly not being served with Mubarak in power.
     
  18. carpro

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    It's not a matter of opposing a popular uprising. Supporting that uprising takes things to another level and works against our own interests.

    Not smart.
     
  19. carpro

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    Silly remark.

    In that part of the world, they could, and probably will, end up much worse off. Iran is a perfect example, as is Afghanistan.
     
  20. billwald

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    Has it been in OUR best interest to support him for the last 30 years? Or has it been in Israel's best interest for the US to have supported him for the last 30 years? Is there a difference between the our best interest and Israel's best interest?
     

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