To call sinners to repentance ! Pt 1

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Lk 5:32

    I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    1 Tim 1:15

    15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    Many today who are false teachers, have taken this text to mean that Christ died for everybody in the world [because, all are sinners by nature] and now He beckons everyone without exception to repent of their sins and to accept Christ as their Saviour; however that is nothing but satanic human and carnal reasoning; But yet the text does say that Christ came specifically to call sinners to[into] repentance ; Which means those who are made sensible sinners by the work of the Spirit in them; for all men no doubt are sinners by nature, and that without exception, however all are not made sensible of their sinnership before God, especially the religious sinner !

    A case in point is the record of the Publican and Pharisee, now what is the difference ? Both are sinners by nature !

    Well one, the publican, had been made sensible of his sinfulness before God, the other , the pharisee, who also was just as much a sinner as the publican, had not been made sensible of his sinfulness before God, and in fact claimed not to be like other sinful people, even as the publican Lk 18:11

    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

    basically he was denying being a sinner as other men are !

    The pharisee pointed to his religious performances, things he knew to be righteous acts Lk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    What this pharisee did not know was that his righteous acts and moral living before God, that these things in and of themselves are nothing but filthy rags before a Holy God Isa 64:6

    6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    Notice, Our Righteousnesses ! The hebrew word here is tsĕdaqah and means:

    Our Righteous acts !

    righteousness (as ethically right)

    These things are not wrong in and of themselves, but when they are foremost as to what we base our relationship with God upon as this pharisee clearly did.

    It is clear that the pharisee based his acceptance with God on two primary elements #1 What he was not Lk 18:11

    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

    And secondly #2 What he did religiously Lk 18:12

    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Being a sinner, yet he believed himself righteous, and that is what Christ means by "I came not to call the righteous"

    Jesus came not to call people of that mindset, yet they are still sinners by nature !
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    We are all sinners.
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    To call sinners to repentance ! Pt 2



    However those as like the Publican, whom knew themselves to be experimentally helpless sinners before God, it is those whom Christ calls into Repentance, in fact He gives them Repentance Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins

    Thats whom He calls into Repentance !

    The problem with the pharisee is that he never been convicted of sin and unbelief Jn 16:8

    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    The word reprove here is the greek word elegchō and means:


    to convict, refute, confute

    a) generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted

    b) by conviction to bring to the light, to expose

    2) to find fault with, correct

    a) by word

    1) to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove

    2) to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation

    b) by deed

    1) to chasten, to punish


    And in the case of the pharisee, we are not talking about gross sins of the flesh like fornication, adultery, nor stealing, murder or extortion and so forth, but the sin of unbelief, self righteousness, his morality and false religion. The fact of the matter is that none of us can deliver ourselves from those sins, for it takes a spiritual application of the Law of God in the Hands of the Spirit to get to the root of that evil of self righteousness, yes to be convinced of wickedness even while we are doing our best religious efforts takes a supernatural act of God the Spirit. Its easy to be convinced of being a sinner as a whore or fornicator and thief, but not so when the sin problem is our own self righteousness and good behavior when we trust it to be our acceptance before God's Law and Justice !

    It is such self righteous religiosity that makes us rich in ourselves as here Rev 3:17

    17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    Can we see that , that was the mindset of this pharisee Lk 18:11-12

    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Consequently, this is the type of rich that Jesus means in its spiritual application when He spake thusly Matt 19:24

    24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    To call sinners to repentance ! Pt 3



    Consequently, this is the type of rich that Jesus means in its spiritual application when He spake thusly Matt 19:24

    24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Jesus did not merely mean rich people materially here, but those rich in trusting in themselves and their own self righteousness, for Jesus was focusing on this the Young ruler stated and believed Matt 19:20


    20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

    The Young man was rich in his self righteousness, just as the pharisee Lk 18:11-12, and this type of sin, of being rich in our religiosity and commendable behavior before men, and to sincerely base our acceptance because of it, even just a little, it is this that makes salvation impossible for man by nature, but made possible only by a Sovereign Work of the Spirit of God, for God the Holy Spirit can and does convince the very religious and self righteous of sin because they believe not on Christ Jn 16:8-9

    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

    When we trust in our performances for acceptance with God, then we believe not yet savingly on Christ because He has not been revealed to us as of yet to be our Righteousness !

    But the Work of the Spirit can convince even the most sincere religious person of their sinfulness before God, and when that happens and they come to Christ, then cometh to past Jn 3:20-21

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Jn 16:8 !

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    The doing of evil here in vs 20 is mans self righteousness, like cain when he brought the best offering he could to find acceptance with God ! And thats all men by nature ! Only a work of Sovereign Grace can convince one of the evil of religion, morality, and self improvement, sincerity and all that, as being evil in the sight of God to find acceptance with Him, because all that disregards His Son as being the only way to God Jn 14:6 !
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    To call sinners to repentance ! pt 4



    The Apostle Paul is an example of one who was much like the pharisee of Lk 18, who trusted in his exemplary efforts in his religious life and not forget his ethnicity of being a full blooded jew, for his acceptance with God, However when the Holy Spirit applied the law to him in its power, he was convinced that he was a covetous man, a very sinful man Rom 7:7-9

    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    Paul here is describing what happened with him when the Holy Spirit convinced him of sin with the Law applied to him, for Paul would not have considered himself a covetous man prior to the Spirit's Work in him because of this former testimony here Phil 3:4-6

    4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

    5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

    6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

    But after the Spirit's work in him Paul saw that he broke the tenth commandment Ex 20:17

    17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

    And so what James writes is True James 2:10-11

    10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

    And Paul writes later that the root problem of covetousness is Idolatry Col 3:5

    Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

    Now do you think that Paul believer himself an Idolater here in Phil 3:5-6 ?

    No he would not have, but he was, and if not for God's Sovereign Work in Him, he would have remained a deluded religious zealot, a filthy Idolater and covetous man, while in his sincere religious pride and accomplishment.

    When Paul states this 1 Tim 1:15

    15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    He personally was not talking about Christ saving fornicators, murderers, thieves and so forth, but sinners like this one Phil 3:4-6

    4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

    5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

    6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

    Thanks to God's Spirit and Purpose of Election of Grace, that God can make even a sinner of the nature Paul was, a sensible sinner even as this publican Lk 18:13

    13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

    When the Spirit made Paul come to that realization, then it was manifest he was of these Lk 5:32

    32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
     
  6. billwald

    billwald
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    John Calvin (someplace) wrote that "The Christian life is a race of repentance."
     
  7. zara

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    I have no sins needing repentance.

    A long long time ago I asked Jesus for forgiveness of all my sins both past and future. He answered all my prayers.

    zara
    ........:jesus:
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    When did the Elect first Sin ?



    When did the Elect first Sin ? Every Elect person first sinned in the man Adam, that goes for the elect babies who die abortively, yes all people, elect, whether their physical lives manifest or not, they sinned, transgressed God's Law when Adam did, and for those of us who think its not fair, that it makes God unjust, then it is we who are unjust, not God, for anything God reckons or does is Righteous !

    However if you noticed, I've stated that only the Elect sinned in Adam, the Son's of God Lk 3:38

    38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

    The non elect, which are the children of the devil Jn 8:44

    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    1 Jn 3:10

    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    The Children of God will be manifested that they are, by doing righteousness, which is believing on Christ !

    Any person who does not ever come to Faith in Christ are the children of the devil.

    The children of the devil, those who never become believers in Christ which the Children of God do Gal 3:26, they did not sin in Adam !

    No, they sinned in the devil their father in the beginning 1 Jn 3:8

    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil[and his seed] sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Now just as God charged the elect, the seed of Adam in him with transgression when Adam sinned Rom 5:12, likewise God charged the devil's seed in him with sin when the devil sinned from the beginning.

    Christ only died for the Elect, that world of men in Adam, the non elect, the children of the devil, who die in infancy will also perish in their sin committed by them in their Father the devil !
     
  9. billwald

    billwald
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    >I have no sins needing repentance.

    The you are maybe the first genuine heretic on BB. You need to repent of this statement/opinion of yourself? Either that or you are the Messiah.
     
  10. zara

    zara
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    NO. NO!!!!! Are you saying that Jesus/Christ cannot forgive us of ALL of our sin???

    My message still stands loud and clear. I did have oodles of sin but now my slate has been cleansed by his blood.


    ps: I may be the only one here on the bb, but there are millions of us throughout this Cosmos; but you may know the bb better than I.
     
    #10 zara, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2012
  11. savedbymercy

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    No, if He did not die for your sins , God cannot forgive you or anyone for their sins !
     
  12. zara

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    God does and creates anything He wants.

    Jesus died and was resurrected for among other things, "Original Sin" as well as the sins we seek to have forgiven. For all of those who preceded Jesus/Christ, even those who aren't or never were "fully" Christian; .... God can forgive them as well at judgment but the road is very very narrow.

    zara
    ...:godisgood:
     
    #12 zara, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2012
  13. billwald

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    >My message still stands loud and clear. I did have oodles of sin but now my slate has been cleansed by his blood.

    BUT do you repent of your new sins? If so, why?
     
  14. zara

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    1. I cannot be sure what is even sin at this point. We Christians, particularly Baptists, tend to overblow sin generally and put up God as a personal discipliner. It seems that sin is a an exacting thought or behavior that violates one of the ten Commandments as well as those that Jesus stipulated in the "Sermon On The Mount" and nothing else. Christ brings Grace to us all and heals our wounds.

    2. All my future sins are forgiven and my slate is clean. Is yours ???

    3. If something grinds at me, I immediately reach to Christ for forgiveness and atonement even if I haven't committed it yet.

    zara
    ....:1_grouphug:
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    zara

    I know that, however that was not an issue here !
     
  16. zara

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    Oh, sorry. What issues did we miss.??? .......zara .........:sleep:
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    Read the Thread, Duh !
     
  18. zara

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    done, back to you.?
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    Ok, rehearse with me the points I made in the OP, the First Post of the Thread. Show me that you understand them, then provide your proof of how they [my points] are wrong !
     
  20. zara

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    per my read,
    1. Luke 5:31-32 NIV
    31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

    yours seems OK. with your cites. so let's assume that you cut and paste from the NIV translations. OK, So What??

    1. Jesus/Christ was the lamb for all, both before Him and after. Your "False Teacher" illustration is at best confusing. Are primitives false teachers and thus unable to enjoy the good news.??

    2. The Pharisees, Sadducee's all can be forgiven. At the cross scene, Jesus uttered "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do".

    3. If somehow someone got overlooked, God will fix-it at Judgment.

    4. All humans are sinners until Christ wipes the slates clean both now then in advance. True Christians are pure from past sins and only a bit sinners for a nanosec while He advances Atonement.

    5. Rightness, morals, .... are not sin if they aren't specifically against the Ten Commandments or contrary to Jesus' "Sermon On The Mount". Bad is not sin.

    10 Commandments: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20 &version=NIV
    Sermon on the Mount: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 5-7&version=NIV

    zara
    ...:thumbs:
     
    #20 zara, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2012

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