To make it in the Hall of Fame....

Discussion in 'Sports' started by TomVols, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...what are your standards? People have queried mine. So I'll be happy to share. Feel free to share yours.
     
  2. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    First and foremost, the Hall of Fame is privately operated and owned.

    The standards are very simple - 10 years experience, 5 years retired, pass a 'screening committee' (whose own determinations are not published, that I know of), 75% of the votes of all ballots cast, by the BBWWA. Add to that (undefined) 'special circumstances' and the deliberations of a "Veteran's Committee".

    BTW, that's Hall standards, not mine. They did not ask for my 'input', for some reason.

    One more thing. With all due respect to Bill James, what he has suggested is opinion, and neither any better or nor any worse, than any other's.

    Ed
     
    #2 EdSutton, Jul 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
  3. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're right about Bill James. If anyone has argued that he's the gatekeeper, I haven't heard it. It's just that a lot of people value his statistical analysis. And the BBWA and Vets Cmte have no standardized methodology for evaluating. There have been suggestions to codify such, but that would be the end of the empire as far as I'm concerned. There are unofficials (500 HR, 3,000 hits - even though 2763 gets you in - etc.) but nothing standardized. If it were, this would all be moot.

    http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/rules.jsp

    It seems you think the whole discussion of who should and should not be in the Hall is sophistry and meaningless. Am I off base here?
     
  4. Andy T.

    Andy T.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    And neither am I. Just being the best at your position over a 10-year span does not make you a Hall of Famer. Freehan and Concepcion are prime examples.
     
  5. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0

    Andy T - professional bromide repeater and circular reasoning specialist :laugh:
     
  6. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guys, I moved the posts regarding Big Mac and made it into its own thread. It will be easier to view that way.
     
    #6 TomVols, Jul 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
  7. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay....my questions that I ask when evaluating a player's HOF worthiness:

    1. Can you make a sound, reasonable argument, from statistics or from reputation, that the player is one of the very best in the game of all time, or at least during his era?
    2. Can you make a sound, reasonable argument, from statistics and/or reputation, that the player is the best or one of the very best at his position among all-timers, or at very least the best during his era?
    3. Can you make a sound, reasonable argument, using statistics and/or reputation, that the player is the best at his position for an extended period of time?
    4. Are comparable players with similar statistics, reputation, and rank in era, already in the HOF? Are few (if any) players with similar statistics, reputation, and era rank not in the HOF?
    5. Does the player meet HOF standards using HOF monitor numbers (not a clincher, but a factor).
    6. Has the player made a significant contribution to the game in terms of athleticism, sportsmanship, or reputation? Has he altered the game in any meaningful way? (The Pioneer question).
    7. Has the player made an impact in the postseason? (I have misgivings about this question, but October is for heroes, like it or not)
    8. Are there contributions and/or factors that are meaningful that are not box-score quantifiable? (This has to be used very, very cautiously, but it is used whether we like it or not).

    Most of these questions are Jamesian in nature or created by Olbermann. I give a lot of weight to what a player does in his era (that's all you can compare a player to), particularly if a player has had some injuries. Also, it's useful if a player is not necessarily the best player on his team (I think that question is weak, but some are in love with the notion - think of how many on the BRM for example, would not be in the HOF thanks to this one).

    No one question is a clincher and no one is a disqualifier. But you do have to meet most of them in my mind, just to be considered. I generally won't consider a guy unless he meets 5 or 6 at least, with the first five carrying the most weight in my mind.
     
    #7 TomVols, Jul 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
  8. Mike McK

    Mike McK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    Edited due to being off topic.
     
    #8 Mike McK, Jul 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2007
  9. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, isn't it convenient that the HOF ceremonies will be coming up and that will give Selig an allibi for missing Bonds break the record? ;)
     
    #9 TomVols, Jul 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2007
  10. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    TomVols,

    Not bad but I would add...

    9. Did said player attain his credentials honestly.

    Mike

    or should I say, MikeCards (Louisville) :thumbs:
     
  11. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I cover that in #6, but I get your drift.
     
  12. Faith alone

    Faith alone
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    0
    Right, too late to change it that much now. And with more and more 3000 hit, 300 victories and 500 HR careers, they will soon not be automatic anymore. But some people have gotten in who would not if voted for now, and others well-deserving have not gotten in. They need to give the Veteran Committee the ability to recommend more than they presently do.

    And there needs to be more consistency. And if Gwynn and Ripkins don't get in unanimously, there's something wrong with such a system. Gwynn won 8 batting crowns.

    FA
     
    #12 Faith alone, Jul 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2007

Share This Page

Loading...