To reformed Baptists......

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Rich_UK, Dec 9, 2004.

  1. Rich_UK

    Rich_UK
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    types of opinions from people of the reformed baptist tradition.

    What types of music do you listen to outside of church. Do you listen to hymns or instrumental types of music? Classical etc?....do you go along with the common thought that all CCM is not of God but purely of the world and the flesh? Is there any types of modern christian music which you would deem as being ok to listen to. If you do listen to any modern types of music, can you give examples of the various artists.
     
  2. whatever

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    I do not claim to be typical, so take this for what it is worth.

    Today I've been listening to Christmas music. My preference is the old stuff - Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Perry Como, even some Elvis. The 2 weeks before that it was the new U2 cd. I listen to many different varieties of music - pretty much anything except modern "country" and rap. Any of it can be good, and any of it can be bad, and most of it is bad in my opinion. Discernment is vital. Charity is too.
     
  3. GeneMBridges

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    Rich, I am a Reformed Baptist, and I am a member of a church that is moving toward a more Reformed position as a whole. Our pastor and our music minister are both Reformed.

    As a church we have two worship services. The first service is more contemporary, the second service is more traditional. The standard that our music ministry employs is that music should glorify God. At the same time, we do "filter" much of the music we use. For example, there are some basic rules. First, it must come from a Christian tradition. Music by Philips, Craig, and Dean, for example, is shunned, because they are all Oneness Pentecostals. (At the same time, however, I will say we still teach the kids "Jesus Loves Me," even though the lyrics are from a quote by Reinhold Neibuhr, the father of modern neo-orthodoxy. He meant those words to mean something very different than what you and I mean them.) Second, it must center on God...Sola Deo Gloria, and be Christ-centered. I had lunch with our pastor the other day and we touched on the lyrics to a few hymns, like "Love Lifted Me," wondering about them, since we don't believe we were sinking in sin; we believe we had sunk all the way to the bottom, lungs filled with water, and dead. Like all good Reformed Baptists, something from the Reformation is sung during the traditional service. We even held a traditional Moravian Christmas Love Feast last Sunday night, because of the way the service focuses on the Lord Himself.

    In short, we filter all music, including CCM, through similar rules. Personally, I do the same. I do personally agree with whoever the Church Music professor was a few years ago that said, "The music of the modern church has lost its imagination," meaning that it had wandered from the majesty and wonder of the historical music of the Church. Much of it has, but then, I know some of the best secular DJ's in the US and they say the same thing about their music too. Maybe it's just a trend. At any rate, no, I do not believe all CCM is of the world and the flesh. Likewise, I treat those that disagree with me with the principles laid down for such matters in 1 Cor. 8 and Romans 14 - 15, and I expect the same of them.
     
  4. LRL71

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    It's interesting that you would ask this question, as the 'music' issue in American 'fundamental Baptist churches' has been a very divisive one. I am of the 'Reformed' Particular Baptist persuasion, liken to the beliefs of Gill and Spurgeon. I am one who also has been in churches who have held to one side or the other. The church I go to uses contemporary Christian music as well as some traditional hymns set to contemporary music. I agree with the previous post regarding principles in music, as I tend to be eclectic with my selection of music. What I listen to in private is the same as I would sing at church!
     
  5. Rich_UK

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    Thanks for your opinions friends. Main reason I ask is that I know opinions differ. The church I'm at it reformed baptist also, and the pastor is taking us through the new hymn book during the bible study each week. It's kinda like a systematic theology. We are covering all the subjects that the hymns cover, and its really interesting. I admit, at first I was a bit put out by hymns and hymns alone. This was because I was so used to CCM in the churches I used to attend before a RBC. Nowdays I see that a lot of the worship I used to be involved in was definetley instrumental in people attending church for the feel good factor it gave them. It also puffed up many a worship leader. I've seen some real performances when I should have seen worship services. I now see how the balance can so easily tend towards tickling our own ears instead of pure worship towards our heavenly father.

    I didn't know that the music in the FBC churches was so divisive persay, but I kinda assumed that it was an important issue with churches worldwide as the amounts of substance-less(hmm..don't think thats a word, shallow, worship is so widespread. Especially nowdays.

    The church I'm attending is strictly reformed hymns...but outside of church the pastor says people are free to listen to what they want. I guess wise judgement is called for. I'm starting to adjust but it was hard at first...like I said before though, I now see very clearly that it was more because my own *taste in music* was no longer being catered for in the church. Outside of church I'd like to think that theres music I can listen to which doesn't label me as a compromiser.
    I enjoy playing the accoustic guitar for instance. I would hate to stop.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    What types of music do you listen to outside of church. Wide variety. Enya to Simon/Garfunkel to classics to elevator music (my favorite)

    Do you listen to hymns or instrumental types of music? Love the old hyms. 101 strings. Mormon Tabernacle. Manheim Steamroller.

    Classical?My weakness. Gabrieli and 16th C Madrgial, Bach, Handel, Chopin, Beethoven. Symphonies, sonatas, etudes, oratorios, OPERA, Gilbert & Sullivan, playing Mendelsohnn on the cd now - there shall a star come out of Jacob . .

    Do you go along with the common thought that all CCM is not of God but purely of the world and the flesh?Nope. Not much of value for corporate worship, that's for sure. And 7/11 choruses are mostly tripe. But still some good stuff by modern writers. We joke in our group that if it wasn't written before 1750, it probably isn't worth singing!

    Is there any types of modern christian music which you would deem as being ok to listen to?Okay for me? I don't set standards for my wife or the body. For example, I listen to Glad Acapella, Steve Green, John Michael Talbot, some Gaither, most John Peterson, Reba (of course), Charlotte Church. I was talked into buying Points of Grace Christmas cd and gave it away.

    To say I'm probably the widest swing of music among reformed baptists is being mild. Most would probably disown me.
     
  7. Joman

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    Why should a Christan has a "Christian Music" for the church and other Christian music for outside the church?

    Christians should be the same in the church and out of the church for the Glory of God.
     
  8. HankD

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    Ideally.

    Favorite "church" piece: Toss-up: Amazing Grace/The Church's One Foundation.

    Favorite "secular" piece: Aria - Vesti la Giubba from Pagliacci.

    HankD
     
  9. Joman

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    My favorite christian music is the same that we use at church because all music is to worship the majesty of God.

    My favorit secular is Techno, Trance (instrumental)
     
  10. GeneMBridges

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    Hank,

    You sound like me. I bet you would have loved our LoveFeast Service at Beck's this past Sunday.
    Moravian LoveFeasts are very formal. Most of it is music. I think we are the only Baptist church in the area that has one now. (We are in an area that is home to an entire Moravian Synod, so this is saying something).

    At any rate...

    When the service began, our four ministers and the entire choir processed down the center aisle of the church while singing "Hark the Herald Angels Sing." For the first time in ages, they were all wearing robes too. I almost cried, because my "wishlist" worship service is an Easter Service where the choir enters the church from the back like that and processes to the front while singing "The Church's One Foundation," or "All Hail the Power of Jesus Name." I even have a copy of the old Broadman Hymnal in my library.

    Like our dear brother above, I too have seen lots of "performance" in worship services in church. I am also bothered by the attitude that some have that if you don't go with their ideas regarding contemporary music in worship you are somehow not "in tune" with "the Spirit." I always ask them how they know I am out tune with the Spirit and how they know they are in tune with the Spirit, and it seems to come down to their warm, fuzzy feelings over my penchant for being sure that the music in worship centers the congregation on Christ alone and is sound Scripturally. To each his own, but, personally, I'd rather worship without performance and without "warm fuzzies," because, for me, the center of worship is Christ alone and the teaching of God's Word to the people.
     
  11. Rich_UK

    Rich_UK
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    I agree.
    When I say christian music outside of the church, what I mean is this. When listening to christian music outside of the church, do you listenn purely to hymns, or do you listen to any other forms of worship? I'm not talking nessecarily about performance type music, but worship that incorporates instruments other than an organ or piano, such as Guitar, wind instruments, flute, sax, anything such as these?
     
  12. GeneMBridges

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    Yes, I'm very eccletic. When it comes to CCM, I have a preference for the music of the 1980's. Michael Card is one of my favorites (including his current music), because his music is very clearly based on Scripture. Listening to his music is like taking a journey through the Bible itself. Since you play acoustic guitar, I have a feeling you will enjoy his music a great deal, because he uses a great deal of acoustic/classical guitar himself. He also employs Celtic influences and even classical. He did a video in the 90's called "Joy in the Journey," which was a collection of his music, which he performed live.

    Steve Camp, who is, I believe, also Reformed, has a real heart for music that is theologically and Scripturally sound. He is also very outspoken about the need for such music in the Contemporary Christian Music community. I've not listened to him in quite some time, but I do know Steve Camp performed (and I assumed lead the music portion) of a conference on Reformed Theology and Apologetics with Dr. James White (of www.aomin.org).
     
  13. Karen

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    A point of correction. [​IMG]

    "Jesus Loves Me" has been around a LOT longer than Reinhold Niebuhr. He was quoting, not being quoted. This song was sung when Amy Carmichael was converted.

    http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/GLIMPSEF/Glimpses/glmps062.shtml

    Karen
     
  14. GeneMBridges

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    Correction to the correction.


    The words Jesus Loves Me first appeared in a book by Anna Warner Say and Seal, Bradbury converted it into a hymn on the mission field in 1860 or so. It was popularized by Reinhold Neibuhr in the US in the 20th century where it was in common use by mid-century, along with the Serenity Prayer.
     
  15. Karen

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    Hi again, Gene,

    Actually the song was already long-popular, before Karl Barth, not Niebuhr, made the famous quote on a visit to Princeton in 1961.

    With regard to the OP, I am not a Reformed Baptist, but I do listen to a wide variety of music at home, including Southern Gospel, chant and plainsong, English choral, Renaissance, Celtic, and modern groups such as Caedmon's Call and dc Talk.
    I was raised on the 1956 Baptist Hymnal and pretty much have it memorized.

    Karen
     
  16. Rich_UK

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    Thanks for those suggestions Gene. I checked both out and I can get them at my christian bookshop. I wasn't sure if they'd stock reformed writers, but then realized, being the average christian bookshop, they stock pretty much anything ....I'm sure if marylin manson wrote a song about Mary being his girlfriend, they'd probably stock it.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    One more thought on "Jesus Loves Me". It is the epitaph on the theologian Karl Barth's tombstone.

    "Jesus loves me, this I know,
    For the Bible tells me so."

    We could do worse . . .
     

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