To worship scholarship.

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by John3v36, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. John3v36

    John3v36
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    It disturbs me that men put there faith in "men" and scholarship. I am not just referring to referring to resources, but essentially seems to worship scholarship.

    I heard on more than on occasion I could not explain it but so-n-so can.

    Christ made the gospel simple so even the simple could be saved, but that seems to trip up the educated of many denominations.

    When I read this passage, I can take it at face (or Faith) value. You do not need someone to tell you what it really means.
     
  2. Brett

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    If we don't need someone to tell you "what it really means", and if it is so simple, why have hundreds of years and thousands and thousands of man-hours gone into studying the bible, and there is still no agreement on major issues, such as Calvanism VS Arminianism?

    Just reading this board is the best evidence that there is NOT one clear, absolute intepretation of any given biblical passage.
     
  3. SpiritualMadMan

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    Here's the thing...

    Jesus's original group were mostly unlearned fisherman...

    Can you imagine having a NT written by them? Early in their Christian Walk and Life?

    Paul came in late and had the scholarship to write very erudite treatises for us to have today, by God's Grace.

    As simple as some of Paul's writings 'seem'...

    Can you imagine how hard it was for him to write something *fishermen* could understand?

    Scholarship is important...

    But, not as important as a Life of Faith. A heart passionate for Jesus...

    Here is why...
    A scholar must be Spiritual, FIRST, if he is to be any use to the Body of Christ...

    The problem we have is far too many seek the degree first then Christ...

    By the time they find Christ they are too inculcated in the secular side of exegesis, theology, sophistry and philosophy for the depth of the Truth of Christ to make an impression...

    Or, them to be of much Heavenly Good in this earth.

    Of course, like Paul, they can still be knocked of their 'donkey'... :D
     
  4. DHK

    DHK
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    Ephesians 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
     
  5. John3v36

    John3v36
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    1 John 2:27 - But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and y ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    Now I know one of you are going to tell me it not saying " ye need not that any man teach you"
     
  6. aefting

    aefting
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    Why did God give us teachers if we need not that any man teach us? Is the Bible in contradiction? Does God not know what He is doing?

    Andy
     
  7. John3v36

    John3v36
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    Why did God give us evangelist if we all are evangels.
     
  8. SpiritualMadMan

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    We have five ministry gifts to the church because we need all five 'flavors'... Duh?!

    That's like saying a Musician can just pick up their instrument and play any song by ear...

    Even with a lot of practice it sure helps to have an idea what's is going on when a modulation occurs so you have clue of where to go...

    One of the problems I have is that a lot of what I have learned I have learned solo: me, my Bible and the Holy Spirit...

    It has often been months or years later that a teaching or a book came along that gave me 'acceptable' words to go with my (often hard fought and won) Heart Knowledge...

    Scholars who *really* have Jesus and can communicate intelligently are essential to the church..

    We shouldn't treat them extra special because God is no respecter of persons, or idolize them, though.
     
  9. HisMercy

    HisMercy
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    John3v36,

    I notice nobody wants to explain 1John 2:27.
    The bible is the language of God. His language is spiritual. Being an educated person cannot help one understand the spiritual language of God. The Pharisees proved that. Being childlike is the first step in being teachable.
     
  10. MTA

    MTA
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    Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
    Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
    Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
    Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
    Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
    Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.


    Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
    Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
    Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.


    The Bible is full of examples where God has supplied "teachers."

    Looking at 1 John 2:27 in the proper context, we see that the Apostle has no apprehension in regards to those he was writing to, that they would apostize or dishonor the cause. (Refer to 1 John 2:20)

    The tools of scholarship are just that . . . tools. It is not unlike any other tool we use to better equip ourselves for the tasks at hand. It should never replace our reliance on prayer for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in our studies, but we can pray for the Spirit to effectively use it to increase our knowledge in Christ Jesus. God gave us minds and the ability to learn more of Him. We should take advantage of what men of God have learned and can share with us so we too can be better prepared to fight the good fight.
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv
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    In spiritual matters, most certainly. But there other matters, such as practical matters, where educating oneself, or receiving input from educated persons is of value.

    The problem with the Pharasees is that they worshipped the Law more than God. We're not to worship the Bible, only God.
    Then again, Paul says that when he was a child, he acted and thought like a child, and when he became a man, he put away his childish ways.
     
  12. HankD

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    If it wern't for well groomed and educated scholars we would all have to learn Greek and Hebrew to read the Bible.

    HankD
     
  13. HankD

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    Read a little of the context just before 1 John 2:27

    1 John 2:26
    These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

    John is speaking of those men who are seducing them away from the truth.

    And in actuality the term any man is one little Greek word tis pointing back to these kind of men.

    In the preceding verses 21-25 he shows us the doctrine of these men:
    1 John 2:22
    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    HankD
     
  14. SpiritualMadMan

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    Johnv,

    You make a good point about instruction in practical matters...

    Marriage Counseling - How to apply God's Scripture to. For example.

    There are a lot of details you won't find in the Bible that scholars like Ed Wheat and Tim Lahaye and others write about...

    How about administrating a church or church office... Book keeping, records required, dealing with staff...

    What local state, and national government laws interact with your church...

    These, too, are not detailed in God's Word except to say we are to be good at them.

    Again, I reiterate, both are required...

    While the '12' were 'mere' Fishermen they walked and talked with Jesus.

    Paul, even with all his excellent training... Consider his own testimony.
    Consider the possible ramifications of this...

    Paul the scholar...
    Paul the Miracle Worker...
    Paul the Apostle...
    etc., etc., etc.

    Went to see the '12' to double-check his own call and understanding of the Scriptures as understood by 'mere' fishermen...

    Yet, even if what I have postulated is true...

    Where would we be without Paul's writing ability?

    Also consider
    and
    or
    I agree with the theme of this post that we should not idolize Scholars... I have a vested interest here because I am 'least esteemed' and 'under-educated' :D

    But, at the same time we need people who are 'well-taught' who also will apply their knowledge Scripturally with a heart toward God...
     
  15. HisMercy

    HisMercy
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    SpiritualMadMan,

    We do need people what are well taught by God, not necessarily by men "called" of God. There are many who say they are "called" by God. What determines if one is truly called by God or not?

    Johnv,

    Mark 12:15 "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."

    Matthew 18:3 "and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
     
  16. SpiritualMadMan

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    That is the $64,000,000 question... :D

    You can screen, examine, listen, and watch them...

    Those that walk worthy of their calling probably are called...

    They will have fruit of their ministry to show for it...

    Not a one time bumper crop either...

    But, a continuous harvest... Evidenced by reproducing healthy sheep...

    You know you can't keep a healthy flock from reproducing [​IMG]

    IMHO: The Goal of the Five-Fold Ministry Gifts is the building up of God's People so *they* can reproduce (evangelize)...
     
  17. HankD

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    It seems that there is among some church persuasions a rush to judgment that any educated person in self-serving when just the opposite may be true.

    How many have turned from the materialistic pursuits of this world to give their life over to the discipline and expense of a higher education in the Scriptures, their original languages, theology, anthropology, hermeneutics, etc only to be told by the inconsiderate that they are not needed.

    Every person on the translating committee of the AV 1611 King James Bible was a scholar of high degree.

    Some individuals were even martyred for translating the Scriptures into the language of the common man.

    Where would we be if not for those scholars who made this sacrifice?

    Dare we say that God doesn't use educated men and women to glorify Him?

    http://www.born-again-christian.info/foxes.book.of.martyrs/foxes.7b.htm

    Of course there have been the hirelings, but I don’t think it’s right to throw the proverbial baby out with the proverbial bath water.

    HankD
     
  18. Ray Berrian

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    There are three of the greatest scholars that I studied under in two of the three seminaries that I studied at in the northeast. Drs. Kuehner and Herter, now with the Lord. They taught among the seminary courses, Hebrew and Greek at the former Reformed Episcopal Seminary on Chestnut Street in Philadelphia.

    But I think the most learned and most humble man who I studied under is Emeritus Professor of Bible at Evangelical School of Theology in Myerstown, Pennsylvania. His Th.D. was to take the raw language of the Codex Bezae and to write his dissertation on this most early codex. His is Dr. James D. Yoder graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary presently living in Myerstown. His book title: "Concordance to the Distinctive Greek Text of Codex Bezae" {Leiden: Brill, 1961}

    Here is a scholar and yet a very humble man, a man who has taught thousands of men and women of God in preparation for the Christian ministry. To God be the glory!

    The first colleges in America including Harvard and Yale were established to train men for the ministry.

    Pastor Berrian, Th.D.
     
  19. neal4christ

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    Which shows the need for some sort of authortative teaching office in the Church. Surely, God is not the author of confusion, is He?

    And yes, I agree with you, that some worship scholarship. There are some here on this board who appear to do so!

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  20. HisMercy

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    People usually associate "fruits" of a ministry with the number of followers someone has. I don't think that agrees with the narrow and broad road which is talked about in the scriptures. Few are chosen according to the scriptures.
     

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