Too free or not too free, that is the question.

ILUVLIGHT,

When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were appointed to eternal life became believers. (NLT)

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. (NIV)

When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. (NASB)

And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior). (AMP)

This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord. (CEV)

And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (ESV)

Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. (NKJV)

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the Word of the Lord; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. (K21)

And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. (ASV)

And the Gentiles, hearing this, were glad and gave glory to the word of God: and those marked out by God for eternal life had faith. (BBE)

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. (KJV) (WBS)

The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed. (WEY)

And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe -- as many as were appointed to life age-during; (YLT)

I hope those help out.

KJB

 

AllaboutGrace,

Let me guess...I know what you are getting at...its all a mystery right! LOL



KJB

 

JohnV,

Kind of a tongue twister there don't ya think?

I will dismiss you have free-will because so much of the Scripture I posted so far shows you are not free at all. It shows thatyou may be subjected to the power of God at any time He wishes to subject you....all according to His will and without any of your consent in the entire matter!

I will not dismiss the responsibility portion though. People....even though they are very irresponsible will be made to respond.

Does that make sense? What I mean is that God will make people respond to Him. One day all people will have to come before Him and they will give account for everything they did in their flesh.

It will not matter who affected the will or the ultimate cause even though those that cause others to stumble will also be made to respond.

There is no escape. There is no free-willing it away. One day ALL people will come before the Lord.

Eve blamed the serpent. Adam blamed not only Eve but God as well. "It was the woman you gave me". Blame, blame, blame....

The problem is this......we will not be able to pass the buck....all people will have to give account for what they have done in the flesh.

Therefore guess what? We are responsible simply because God has all the power to make everybody respond!

And who do you think will be able to stand before the Lord unless He pardons them?

But that is another topic.

You cannot prove you have free-will.

Scripture shows that the wills of people are bound in a sin nature and are not free from sin.

Scripture shows that there are supernatural forces and powers that can and do affect and influence the wills of men.

So what part of your will is free and how can you prove it to me?

I will glady agree you have a will and you are not a "mindless automoton" but show me how you can prove with Scripture that the "free" should fit in.

I am not speaking here about free-will offerings which is an explanation of offerings above what was due.

Free-will....prove it!

KJB

 

Rev 22:17

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Pretty good verse to bring up.

Come! The first portion is the Spirit and the bride calling come.....Lord Jesus Come!

And let him that hears say come!

Would you say that calling would apply to lets say...those that cannot hear?

What I mean is.....would unbelievers be calling Jesus to come?

And let him that is athirst come.

Would that call apply to those that are not thirsty?

And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

And whosoever will not...are they capable of changing on their own to will?

Would you say that God may at His will cause people to thirst for Him and long for Jesus to come? Is God capable of making a man willing or not?

for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

KJB

 

JohnV,

It's a tongue twister because you try to prove a few things in your one single statement.

You more than likely are not a Calvinist.

You may not dismiss you have free-will even though Scripture shows you do not have it and you have no way to prove you do have it.

Thats quite a problem you have there on your hands. I would suggest holding your thoughts submissive to Scripture instead of holding Scripture to your thoughts. Of course since you are so free to choose with your free-will.....I suppose you can simply choose to believe the way I do.

I am not free however and find myself unable to freely choose to believe you.

I would not dismiss responsibility either...because YOU will be made to respond...and it matters not if you do not WILL to respond. You will not be free in the matter at all! God will MAKE you respond and all the will power or free-willing you can muster up on your best day will not change it!

KJB

 

I forgot to answer the other part of you statement.

None of my points makes you a mindless automon.

I do not deny man has a will. I hope that is very clear to you.

The word "free" modifies the word "will".

You use the word free-will with the main intenet to somehow conclude that people are free from the control of God.

Your idea is if God chooses who He works in it's just not fair.....and so He must not work in anybody.....He lets them be free.

Your idea is that God dos not choose who He saves and then works to save them......because He will not affect the will of man which is free from the work of God.

I say people are not free from the control of God. I say it is God that works to save people. I say He works upon their wills and gets them to do what they would not be normally willing to do.

So tell me what is your will free from? Evil...is it free from evil? Sin...is your will free from sin? Is it free from being influenced at all? Prove it!

Large corporations spend billions of dollars every year to influence the wills of people. It is done with adverts.

It is very effective and that is why they spend all the money they do......because they KNOW they can influence the wills of people.

Now are you really going to sit there and tell me the wills of people are not, and can not be influenced by God in whatever way He wishes to do so?

Do you really have a free-will? Are you really going to sit there and say God is incapable of working on your will to influence it one way or another?

KJB