Too free or not too free, that is the question.

I have that Henry Alford qoute and he DOES NOT say the Greek supports Calvinism in Acts 13:48, but the OPPOSITE. The EXPOSITORS GREEK NEW TESTAMENT says the same in Vol 2, p.300.

 

King James Bond,

Many Arminians believe as do you that we are saved by God alone. I too, believe this.

You asked about a baby and gave you a Biblical explanation; what do you want out of me.

Down syndrome people, the insane and babies/minors are covered by Jesus' atonement, because they do not have the cognitive skills to make human decisions.

Sinners who rebel against the Lord's calling by the Spirit of God until the hour of their death, will step into Hell because God was and will always remain God of love and Divine justice.

 

TCassidy,

We know in Acts 13 we know that those who received eternal life were the people who yielded to the calling of God the Spirit and believed.

You please, explain the Jews throughout history reaching back into the O.T. who rejected Jehovah Lord and under the New Covenant also rejected the Messiah/Lord our Savior. Reread Acts 7:51.

In Stephen's apology/defense of the faith said,

'Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT as YOUR FATHERS DID, AND SO ARE YOU.'

This is where we Arminians along with other passages believe that it is possible and in most sinner's lives it will be that they reject the Gospel unto salvation. Doctrinally, it is called, Resistible Grace.

 

Where did I blame you for my mistake? I didn't make a mistake. You misread what I said. Everyone else here seems to be able to see it. They konw what I said, and it was cleared up in subsequent posts. Mike, you have picked the wrong horse to ride again. Go after something legitimate if you are going to debate.

No it doesn't. It says "...and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." The appointing preceded the belief in the context of hte verse, once you accept that verb tenses mean things.

 

Larry;
I admit that I'm no Greek scholar but neither are you . You even disagree with what is writen in the Greek.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

 

Which part do I disagree with? And if you are no Greek scholar, then how do you know I disagree with it?

 

King James Bond,

God did not give us a whole lot of reasons why or if He saves all babies to eternal life. The story of King David shows that in this case He did save the baby and give that person everlasting life.

With this one example, I believe many Christians would agree they believe God to be a loving and merciful Person toward those who do not have cognitive skills.

Should we believe that He would be vengeful or vicious toward any of the babies?

Ray

 

Actually that verse, Acts 13:48 was the one that gave me a great WOW moment and sent me on a search with prayer that the verse and others that verified that doctrine would be shown to me. This sent me on a search leading into the doctrines of grace! Wonder of wonders! So many other verses that give that same great doctrine!

 

Cass you are twisting what Alford said. He shows, FROMTHE CONTEXT, that the Jews judgedthemselves unworthy of eternallife and thrust the Word of God from them. But the Gentiles had no such hostile attitude and as many as had a desiring or disposed to eternal life--i.e., the message of the apostles, they believed.

You are misrepresenting Alford.

And think about this. If the verse means literally what most people think as it is rendered in the KJV, then NONE OF US ARE NOW SAVED. How so? Becasue it says " AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE... what did that group do? believed. How many? As many as were ordained to eternal life. Do you get this? It means that all the elect were there that day, and they believed. No more salvation after this, because as many as were ordained to eternal life believed! Hello! If this verse actually taught pre-ordination to life by God upon man, then election was closed on that day.

You see, there is no ordination to eternal life here, but a dispostion to eternal life, IN CONTRAST to the Jews, who were hostile to it.

If you're gonna take it the way the KJV seems to read, take it all the way. Salvation ended for all man here, for AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE...this is the whole group oif the elect, BLELEIVED, past tense. So we're all lost and non-elect.

 

Han,

All the Calvinists I know are some of the most evangelistic people I have ever met, so your poppycock idea that they do not desire people to be saved is wrong.

All of the great revivals of history as well as the great missionary movements were brought about by men who would be classified as Calvinist.

This is the problem with many of you people hear, you are ignorant of what is commonly called Calvinism, not to mention history.

 

4His--glory,

John and Chares Wesley were, thank God, worlds apart from Calvinism.

The Methodist Church used to have more churches in the United States than any other denomination.

The Catholic Church in the 21st century is more Arminian than leaning toward Calvinism.

The Wesleyan Church, Nazarene Church and Free Methodist Church and most Pentecostals believe in Arminianism rather than Calvinism.

Now, that accounts for mega millions of Christians. And I am sure more than some on this board do not even think some Roman Catholics are saved?

Now what was that about Calvinistic missions? Just so we have a little balance as to other denominations that are bringing people to Christ.

 

Thanks for the inspiration coming from Charles Wesley. I find nothing in that hymn that is unorthodox.

One for the Wesley's! As you know their mother was an instrument in the Lord's hands in bring these men to Jesus Christ. Here is one for all Christian mothers!!

 

Only if you don't understand what "irresistable grace" means. </font>[/QUOTE]So is this a case of redefining English?

 

Ray,

Don't you can not argue with history. Almost all of the church planting done in early America was done by particular Baptists. They certainly were Calvinistic, in fact the Arminian churches were doing little regarding evangelism in early America.

Give me some proof of this, but even if it is true it does not discount what I said. William Carrey and Andrew Fuller sparked the modern missions movement, both were Calvinistic. The Great Awakening took place when men like Edwards and Whitefield, both strong Calvinists, were preaching the unsearchable riches of Christ.

Adoniaram Judson, America's first Baptist missionary was a Calvinist.

Need I go on?

Oh,and lets not forget the church in Jerusalem, where the Lord added to the church such as should be saved.

Really though numbers do not matter, who cares if there a bunch of Arminian churches in our land, whats important is that some hold to the truth.