Torture and Abortion: What Say You?

Sir, you are the enemy.
I am against torturing the enemy.
Therefore: I'm against torturing you.
I am NOT against torturing the enemy for Christian reason(s).
I am against torturing the enemy because it is
NOT a good way to collect data.
I am against torturing the enemy because it is
NOT kind.
I am against torturing the enemy because
it can destroy our republic if we let as few
as 10,000 such torturers roam free in our country.


I have fostered NO TORTURE (AKA: hazing) in
High School & College since 1968 (39 years).
I retired from 30 years making smart weapon
systems for the US Government.
Kill terrorists - don't torture them.

Oh yes, I'm against recreational booze & recreational abortion.

 

A big AMEN. I can't even think about partial birth abortions, it's too horrid.

 

Q. If we call a tail a leg, how many legs does a horse have?

A. 4, because a tail is not a leg no matter what you call it.

In the same way, just because you call abortion torture doesn't make it so. Here's a handy definition.

Torture - the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

Since there is no confession or information that could be gained from aborting a baby, it cannot be called torture. Since your definition of torture is wrong from the beginning, your equation of abortion = torture cannot be true.

Torturing the enemy is an unbiblical stance and I'm upset and appalled that a pastor would endorse torture.

PS. I'm against both abortion and torture.

 

I do not believe that abortion is torture - it's murder, premeditated at that. (aren't you supposed to go to jail, or be executed for premeditated murder?) To try and draw some kind of line between the two is a weak argument and a waste of time.

 

// I am not the enemy Ed [that is a highly judgmental
comment coming from one believer to another] ... //

Sorry, my Bad.
I rephrase:

You are the enemy of terrorists.
What we do to them will be done back to us.
I'm not afraid of dying; but 'they' sure aught
to be.

 

"Why are we worried about protecting our enemy from torture when we should be protecting our own unborn from abortion?"

Can't we be against both?

 

From dictionary.com:

tor·ture /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tawr-cher] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
–noun 1.the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty. 2.a method of inflicting such pain. 3.Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone. 4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony. 5.a cause of severe pain or anguish. –verb (used with object) 6.to subject to torture. 7.to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me. 8.to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips! 9.to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms. 10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).


I think abortion could easily fit the definition of torture.

 

Too much meditation of the subject will certainly bring someone down to liking the more cold-hearted nihilist opinion...so I say we close the subject for good from BB...

 

I would definitely agree that abortion is both murder and torture! I have carried three children, and I could not imagine allowing one to be partially born and then killed or having one sucked out of my uterus before it had a chance to form completely. I felt all of those children almost from conception; I literally knew before I ever took a test with all three of them. So, I will definitely say that abortion is torture because it harms an innocent child.

 

righteousdude2 said:

Good. I'm on-board with this too. But why did you start the OP with this?

Righteousdude2, can you pick one definition of torture and stick with it? You started out by talking about torture of the enemy. Now, you want to use the definition of the word that means severe pain.

belvedere said:

Sure it could. But that's not the definition of torture that righteousdude2 was talking about. In the OP, righteousdude2 clearly defined what he meant by torture, and it wasn't the kind of torture defined as severe pain.

You don't get to start a thread using one definition of the word then change what meaning you're using mid-thread. That dog won't hunt.

 

Bending of thoughts and words? What on earth are you talking about? Please explain.

Here's what you said in the OP.

Then, you said this.

"Torturing the enemy" refers to the definition I've posted, which is a valid definition.

"... baby is in definite pain..." refers to the definition belvedere posted, which is also a valid definition.

Wouldn't you agree that these are 2 different definitions of the word torture that you're using?

 

This is an easy question. Both are wrong.

 

Torturing our POWs captured in battle gives our potential enemies all the justification they need, as reinforces the view of the US as a rogue nation. Anyone who supports torture is detestable.

 

We now have four threads on torture. And we have people trying to make a case that torture can supported with scripture. :BangHead: In another of these threads, my opinion was referred to as "pathetic" and "twisted" because I dared to refer to enemy combatants as our "neighbors". This whole situation reminds me of the effort in the 19th century to justify slavery by using scripture. What is pathetic and twisted is the way too many of us have bought into the "politics of fear" and, on the BB, the "theology of fear". We have blurred our faith and our patriotism until neither are recognizable. We are lapsing into McCarthyism and the kind of attitudes reminiscient of the Spanish Inquisition. We need to remember that we worship a God of grace, peace, and mercy.

Tim Reynolds

 

Amen. As far as I know, this is still part of the New Testament.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

Thanks for the support. I think I've already mentioned this passage on one of the other torture threads. But it does not seem to have had much effect.

Tim Reynolds