Torture Definition Contest Revisited

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    Lot of talk around here about torture lately. Some say you have to define what torture is before you can discuss it in a rational manner. So let's give it another try.

    This is from George Washington's Blog,


    Senator Levin, in commenting on the Senate Armed Services Committee report on torture declassified today, drops the following bombshell:
    With last week's release of the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinions, it is now widely known that Bush administration officials distorted Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape "SERE" training - a legitimate program used by the military to train our troops to resist abusive enemy interrogations - by authorizing abusive techniques from SERE for use in detainee interrogations. Those decisions conveyed the message that abusive treatment was appropriate for detainees in U.S. custody. They were also an affront to the values articulated by General Petraeus.

    In SERE training, U.S. troops are briefly exposed, in a highly controlled setting, to abusive interrogation techniques used by enemies that refuse to follow the Geneva Conventions. The techniques are based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting false confessions for propaganda purposes. Techniques used in SERE training include stripping trainees of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, subjecting them to face and body slaps, depriving them of sleep, throwing them up against a wall, confining them in a small box, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures. Until recently, the Navy SERE school also used waterboarding. The purpose of the SERE program is to provide U.S. troops who might be captured a taste of the treatment they might face so that they might have a better chance of surviving captivity and resisting abusive and coercive interrogations.
    Senator Levin then documents that SERE techniques were deployed as part of an official policy on detainees, and that SERE instructors helped to implement the interrogation programs.

    Washington's Blog

    What's your definition of torture?
     
  2. rbell

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    I answer this as one who is not skilled in military or intelligence tactics.

    I do not feel we should physically abuse a detainee. I have no problems whatsoever with our disrupting their routine (lights on at night, loud music, meals at odd times, etc.).

    Of course, known enemy terrorists who have planned and executed fatal attacks on Americans would be tried in a military court and executed, if I had my way.
     
  3. matt wade

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    I totally agree with you! :thumbsup:
     
  4. LadyEagle

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    Yep, me, too!
     
  5. OldRegular

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    My definition of torture is being forced:

    1. To realize that the name of our greatest president is used on a left wing blog.

    2. To read anything posted on a left wing trash blog like the Huffington post.

    3. To consider that the uber leftist Senator Leahy is chairman of the Judiciary committee.

    4. To wake up each morning and realize that I am not in the Twilight Zone [like poncho] and that Czar obama is really president.

    5. To realize that this person seems obsessed with the destruction of this country.

    6. To realize that this person made obeisance to the ruler of the two most revered sites in Islam.

    7. To wonder each time I read of this person if he is a closed Muslim.
     
  6. matt wade

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    Come back when you can actually stay on topic.....wait, nevermind, that would mean we wouldn't see you again! :laugh:
     
  7. OldRegular

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    You wanted my definition of torture. I can expand on it if you are really interested.

    You are not in the Twilight Zone with poncho are you Matt?
     
  8. matt wade

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    Actually, no I didn't want your definition...I think that was poncho that asked for definitions.

    Twilight Zone? No, I'm not there with poncho. I'm also not in Never Never Land with you ;).
     
  9. poncho

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    That's just OR's way of saying he agrees with using Communist Chinese torture techniques against people he doesn't know, has never met and considers to be less than human so long as our shamlessly corrupt and corporate fascist government gives them the "terrorist" label before they're convicted of any crime. ;)

    BTW, I am in favor of public floggings and executions (hangings, none of these namby pamby injections behind closed doors) so long as the quilty party has been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court of law first. Due process. It used to be the American way. Now it's anyway the government and media says it is. They dictate and we obey. It's good to be free isn't it?
     
    #9 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  10. carpro

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    Torture is knowing the lunatics are running the asylum in Washington, DC.

    It's painful knowing that people like Nancy Pelosi, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Charles Rangel, and Harry Reid (to name a few) have anything at all to do with running the country.
     
  11. matt wade

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    Personally I think it is a shame that you and OldRegular mock torture the way you do. Many members of our fine military have gone through real torture and you come here and mock the very notion of it. Ask someone like John McCain if the physical and mental pain and agony he endured was akin to realizing "that the name of our greatest president is used on a left wing blog". Mock torture all you want, our brave military men will continue to endure it so that you can have the freedom to mock.
     
  12. carpro

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    :laugh:

    Your righteous indignation is primarily based on ignorance.

    It's an old topic that has been hashed and rehashed before here. Sorry you missed it. So...

    Save your lectures for those you can easily impress. I could take you to school on how people in the military feel about it all.

    You would really be shocked to know what they consider torture.
     
    #12 carpro, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  13. matt wade

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    So, since it's been discussed before now is the time to mock it? Well then, we should mock every topic on this board since they have all been discussed before. How about we mock abortion next since it is discussed so often?

    You can throw your snide remarks my way, but it doesn't negate that you are mocking a serious subject that has affected many men and women that have fought for your freedoms.
     
  14. carpro

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    You were the one that started the snide remarks, preacher.

    You seem to like to dish it out, but can't take it.

    You know, that heat in the kitchen sort of thing.

    So, buck up an stop your whining.

    While you're at it , tell me some more about those that "have fought for my freedom". That really interests me.:laugh:
     
  15. poncho

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    How about we mock those "message force multipliers" whom Carpro apparently gained most of his knowledge from?

    Sorry Carpro ole buddy but it still tickles me that you accuse others of not being knowledgable considering your major source of knowledge. Propagandists employed by the Pentagon and military industrial complex. Ya gotta admit that's funny. :laugh:
     
    #15 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  16. carpro

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    Tend to your conspiracy theories , Ponch, and leave reality to the rest of us.:wavey:
     
  17. matt wade

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    I can take your snide remarks. Notice I said "You can throw your snide remarks my way". That means go ahead and throw them, I can take it. I just said that your snide remarks don't negate the mocking ones you already made. I.e., you can't cover up your mocking with the snide remarks.

    Yeah...you seem real interested in those that have fought for your freedom while you have mocked the torture that some of them have gone through.
     
  18. donnA

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    noun 1.the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.2.a method of inflicting such pain.3.Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.5.a cause of severe pain or anguish.
    –verb (used with object) 6.to subject to torture.7.to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me. 8.to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips! 9.to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms. 10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).


    seems according to the actual defination, it can be subjective. causing mental anguish can be called torture, who defines another persons mental anguish?
     
  19. poncho

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    Playin it off again eh? I figured you'd be to ashamed to talk about it. That's funny you deny reality and accuse others of it. A perfect 28 percenter. :laugh:

    Actually you didn't even stick around long enough to deny it did ya? Denying it would mean facing it. I suppose that would be kinda scary for a real "dyed in wool" 28 percenter. :laugh:
     
    #19 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  20. carpro

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    Your mention of "force multipliers" reminded me:

    Enjoy

    Force Multipliers
    Wikipedia: force multiplier-a military term referring to a factor that dramatically increases (hence multiplies) the combat-effectiveness of a given military force.

    In Iraq an IED explodes,
    An American soldier dies,
    But that blast will grow as the media blow
    It up before our eyes.
    And trumpet to the watching world,
    These fifth column falsifiers,
    Like sheep they bleat we face defeat,
    Our foe’s force multipliers.


    Osama and his minions know,
    In combat they can’t beat us;
    So they hope and pray will come a day,
    Our own media will defeat us.
    Ignoring all the good we’ve done,
    Liberals focus on the gore,
    On losses mounting and body counting,
    To prove we’ve lost this war.


    They disgraced us once in Vietnam,
    So now these leftists feel,
    That again they’ll win with media spin,
    And make America kneel.
    But defeatists aren’t the only ones,
    Learned lessons from the past;
    Back then we swore we’d lose no more,
    This time we’re standing fast.


    The Internet’s exposed them,
    As elitist media liars;
    They stand unclothed and widely loathed,
    Our foe’s force multipliers.
    Some day when all our troops return,
    With Iraq on freedom’s path,
    The liberal elite who sought defeat,
    May face some Righteous wrath.



    Russ Vaughn
    2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
    101st Airborne Division
    Vietnam 65-66
     

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