Total Depravity, Again

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by cfolsom, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. cfolsom

    cfolsom
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    Out of all the people Christ Jesus healed, how many came to him to be healed?


    Changed like Saul,

    Elder Chris Folsom
     
  2. Yelsew

    Yelsew
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    Please disclose how your statement fits the topic.
     
  3. Primitive Baptist

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    "And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment: For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole." (Matthew 9:20-21)
     
  4. Yelsew

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    The lepers called out to Him Master have mercy
    The blind man was eager to hear and was made to see.
    The Lame that were brought because they couldn't under their own power.
    The Centurians child was healed because of the Centurian's faith, the Centurian came to Jesus.

    The young girl whom Jesus restored to life did not and could not come to Jesus, but persons who had faith in Jesus came in her behalf.

    I'm sure there are many more who heard of the miraculous healing power of Jesus that came to him or that were brought to Him or who had others intercede on their behalf with Jesus.
     
  5. cfolsom

    cfolsom
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    Okay, out of all the people Christ Jesus raised from the dead, how many of them came to Jesus to be raise up?

    Changed like Saul,

    Elder Chris Folsom
     
  6. npetreley

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    ROFL!! I was wondering where you were going with this.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. Primitive Baptist

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    Amen, brother!
     
  8. Yelsew

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    They did not, but instead those who loved them and had faith that Jesus would raise them came to Jesus on their behalf.

    Again you are speaking of physical raising from the dead, restoring dead flesh to life by recalling the spirit into the flesh.

    No, it does not prove your point that being dead in sins leaves man totally helpless, unable to make a decision to believe and therefore live. But it does show your ignorance of the scriptures!
     
  9. Ray Berrian

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    God is not some kind of Divine tryrant or cosmic bully who bosses every aspect of our lives. Christians at times have sinned grieviously and hopefully have confessed and moved on in their Christian life.

    I believe He is still saying from His throne, 'Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.' The lost can bring to Him their broken hearts as sinners and they will find peace and comfort in their lives. We Christians can repeatedly bring our concerns to Him as the people of God and He will minister to our hearts. He bids us move toward Him in our thinking, in our hearts, and in our constant devotion. There is no condition of race, social standing or lack thereof, or wealth that will impress Him. His call as noted is offered to all people.

    In our nation tonight with the threat of North Korea and Iraq, we all need a confident 'rest' that can only come by His presence in our hearts, via the precious Holy Spirit. Our prayer, as Americans, should be 'O Lamb of God I come, I come.'

    I confess, I need Him every hour.
     
  10. Primitive Baptist

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    "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28)

    To whom is this vocation addressed?

    Respecting the distress among the nations, God worketh all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11).

    "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." (Proverbs 21:1)

    I have peace because I know who is really in control.

    "And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:" (Daniel 2:21)

    God is just as active in our government as any other aspect of our lives. That gives me great peace. [​IMG]
     
  11. cfolsom

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    Okay, let me continue to show my ignorance of God's word.

    Seems to me, that it would take the same power to raise the physical dead as it does to raise those of His who are spiritually dead.

    If, as you believe, man has "some life", then why does scripture always refer to those who are regenerated in ways that only God can do? Such as, "BORN AGAIN", did you have a choise in who your parents are? How about "New Creature", can you make a creature? "Quickened" (made alive), can you give life to anyone?

    Every time scripture speaks of "regeneration", it is in a way that gives God all the glory and man no glory. When man is glorified, it is in Christ, which glorifies God!!

    Sorry, if my ignorance continues to show.

    Any good that I do, I give God all the glory and all the bad/evil I do is mine and I take full responsibility for it.


    Chanegd like Saul,

    Elder Chris Folsom
     
  12. Yelsew

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    Cfolsom,
    What you say is good, but you are overlooking God's created man. A creation in God's own image with attributes like unto God himself.

    Why would he create us to be so wondrously made, yet to be so useless as you indicate we are?

    Cattle have no choice, Dogs have no choice, apes have no choice, if you get my drift. Man is made and given more than the animals yet you say that man is incapable of doing what man was created to be able to do. You imply that man was created with all this good stuff, designed for long life, etc., but because man sinned he somehow lost some of the good that God created into him?

    The truth is, Man retains all that he was created to have including free will...it was through free will that man sinned in disobedience to God. It was because of man's free will that God expelled him from the garden so that he would not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

    It is through free will that man is brought back to God by believing the truth. If Noah had not had and exercised his free will, He would not have believed and built the ARK. If Abraham had not had and exercised his free will, he would not have pleased God with faithful action, etc.

    God wants us to want him. With no free will, we cannot demonstrate our desire to be redeemed and restored in the family of God.

    You expect your children to exercise their free will, and to respect and trust you as their parent. You expect them to obey you of their own free will. When they get into trouble you expect them to seek of their own free will your "salvific powers" to redeem them from the trouble they are in. God, our father, expects us to behave in the same manner, using our own free will to call upon him for his salvific powers. That is one reason why we call Him 'Father', he works for our salvation the way we are expected to work for our children's salvation. But if we do not want to be saved, he does not force salvation upon us.
     
  13. cfolsom

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    I say unto the brethren, God created Adam in HIS image however, you and I were not, until we are regenerated by God. Read the following.


    Genesis 4:
    1 ΒΆ This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

    These verses are clear, God created Adam and Eve in HIS image, sinless! Verse 3 tells us Seth, the third son of Adam, was made in the IAMAGE AND LIKENESS fo Adam, not God.

    The difference is simple, When God created Adam, HE created (again, here is this create thing, in which only God can do.) Adam without sin. When Seth was born, he was made like his dad, a sinner (Psalms 51:5). Not in the likeness of God. I do believe Seth was regenerated (born again) by God because the rest of the human race came from him. Does that mean God borns again every person that a woman gives birth to, no, it does not mean that at all.

    i know this will not persuade you, Yelsew, only God can do that. My job is to present it and let God be concerned with the application.

    Oh yea, Did Jonah refuse God? Yes he did, but in the end God made Jonah do what HE wanted. Jonah had no choice.


    Changed like Saul,

    Elder Chris Folsom
     
  14. Yelsew

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    Your point is considered cfolsom.
    You read too much into the quoted scripture.

    The difference in Adam before sin and after sin would never be noticed by any of us today if we could go back and observe the events as they unfolded. We would see nothing different except behavior and clothing. The changes spawned by the knowledge of Good and evil. Otherwise Adam would still be Adam. He would still have every one of the attributes that God made him to have. So now the third son of Adam comes on the scene and you would have us believe that because Adam sinned, that which God created and called very good is no longer valid and was changed? That is what you are saying is it not?

    Did Seth not have the attributes with which Adam was created? Did Seth not have love, mercy, grace, justice, free will, etc.? Can you identify the specific changes that you assume took place?

    The scripture says that Seth was in the image of Adam. What about Cain? What about Abel? We know that Cain was a sinner, because he slew his brother Abel, but was Abel as sinner? Was his image not also that of Adam?

    Upon what do you base your belief that Seth was born again? I assume you mean born again in the modern Christian sense. Was he Baptised and thus a Baptist, too? I suspect that Seth was raised to have Faith in his father's creator God and that His faith was counted to him as righteousness in the same manner as his descendent Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness.

    So, Jonah had and used free will? Hmmm.
     
  15. Primitive Baptist

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    "And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power," (Ephesians 1:19)

    According to what do we believe? According to our "free will?" No, according to the working of His mighty power, even the effectual power by which Paul was made a minister according to the will of God (Ephesians 3:7).

    Jonah is a bad example to prove "free will." After all, despite his disobedience and not going to Ninevah, God prepared a fish to swallow him and spit him out on the shore!
     
  16. Frogman

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    My endorsement is not necessary here, but I would like to say Amen to my Primitive Baptist Brother.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  17. npetreley

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    I second that Amen.
     
  18. cfolsom

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    Yelsew,

    One either believes what the bible says or they don't. Most of the Modern Christianity wants to glorify man by thinkinghe has to do something to be saved. i.e. "All you have to do is believe"

    When I ask how one believes, everytime, the answer is "You gotta have faith". Then I ask, "How do you get faith?" the answers is always, "You just have to believe."

    Faith come from God and HE alone. One can not believe without faithand one has no faith unless the Father gives faith through HIS Spirit.

    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Scripture tells us the result of the Spirit is fruit. The fruit can not be without something to produce the fruit, i.e. the Spirit. The fruit, which every born again child of God only has, is manifest as love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, and so on.

    The only way to please God is by faith. Whose faith? Our own, no, only the faith which has been given us by God through Christ directing the Holy Spirit.

    Total Depravity, man's inability to save himself. Dead/Unrighteous/Wicked, that is how the bible describes us prior to being born again.

    1. A dead man can do nothing.Christ went to the dead to raise from the dead and HE is still doing it that way Spritually today.
    2. Unrighteous...Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Dirty can not make something clean. Dirty can only be cleaned by something that is clean.
    3. Wicked...Running after the things of the flesh. The only thing the wicked can do is the things which are wicked. If wickedness is the only thing the wicked are capable of doing, then how can the wicked seek out God and the things of God, which is a good thing? They can not.

    I'll stop now, for this post.


    Changed like Saul,

    Elder Chris Folsom
     

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