Total depravity and Genesis 4:7

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. webdog

    webdog
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    How could an unregenerate, totally depraved Cain rule over / master sin by doing what's right without being regenerated?
     
  2. gb93433

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    He was a calvinist that became reborn.
     
  3. zrs6v4

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    Cain wasnt Abel to.
     
  4. kyredneck

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    "I've no doubt Cain knew exactly what God was warning him of, I suggest it's the majority interpretation of the passage that's in error."

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1920051#post1920051
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2013
  5. webdog

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    Pink did a number on that text :eek:

    talk about putting a square peg in a round hole. He talks about how difficult of a text it is, but its anything but. It has to be difficult and he has to proof text in order for his theology to work.
     
  6. kyredneck

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    Pink did what he was gifted at, he revealed a magnificent type in the passage. It's to your own detriment that you dispy literalists tend to dispise and reject those marvelous types that the scriptures are rich in.

    The OP premise is a 'red herring', your intitial interpretation of the passage is all wrong.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Aww....you dirty little dispy.


    Can anyone tell me what dispensationalism has to do with this thread. Anyone?
     
  8. kyredneck

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    Literal versus Allegorical interpretation of scripture.

    The dispy rigidly clings to one (when it suits them) and mocks the other.
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    Although he was responsible too.....he was unable to submit to God...as in romans 8:7 the carnal mind is emnity against God and CANNOT submit to God. So he offered a wrong sacrifice , in the wrong way, and murdered his brother instead.:thumbs:
     
  10. DHK

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    I disagree with your analysis which results in a mischaracterization of posters here holding various theological positions. Please realize that before Origen no one held to an allegorical method of the interpretation of Scriptures. They interpreted the Scriptures literally. Origen, a heretic, was the one who introduced the allegorical method of interpreting the Bible. The one who popularized it was Augustine, another who held to many heresies, and one of the fathers of the RCC. With that in mind I would not put much stock in one who allegorizes Scripture. They are to be taken literally, as the Spirit of God intended them to be, unless specifically directed otherwise.
     
  11. kyredneck

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    Wow, imagine that.....

    24 Which things contain an allegory…… Gal 4

    3 and he spake to them many things in similes, saying….. Mt 13 YLT

    5 who serve that which is a copy and shadow of the heavenly things…. Heb 8

    11 And all these things as types did happen to those persons….. 1 Cor 10

    9 which is a figure for the time present ….. Heb 9

    1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come…Heb 10

    19…..from whence he did also in a figure receive him back Heb 11

    .....seems I recollect you referring to John Gill as being a heretic also.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2013
  12. pinoybaptist

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    you just gave the answer. he wasn't regenerate.
    Whom He regenerates is sovereignly God's.
    On the other hand, Cain might be regenerate, which shows that only the regenerate elect of God has the choice to obey or disobey.
    Those who are not are slaves to their unregenerate nature.
     
  13. webdog

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    I don't buy the nonsense God specifically commands things He specifically does not equip us for.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    "mocks the other" give me a break.
     
  15. kyredneck

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    ....yea, even calls them 'heretics'.....
     
  16. thomas15

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    Don't expect much in the way of critical thinking from an individual who thinks that Jesus returned in AD70 and that we are now living in the kingdom.
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    there you go.

    if God were so all-knowing, then why would he require man to repent when He Himself knows man cannot unless He regenerates them first, therefore, the call to repentance is for the regenerate elect, and the repentance they are called for is to turn from their idols to the living God, HERE IN TIME.
     
  18. kyredneck

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    amen pinoy!
     
  19. Bronconagurski

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    Why did God command Pharoah to let his people go, then harden his heart so he would not? Who are you to question the methods of God?

    The fact is, Cain could not have repented without God telling him what to repent of, and what was needed. He was also warned about the consequences. Man can not repent unless God convicts him through the Holy Spirit and His word. That is a fact that can not be refuted. Man chooses to reject God and his word and the Holy Spirit. God chooses to save His elect. So I am not a 5 point Calvinist per se, but I believe God is sovereign and can do what he wants. Man, left to himself cannot seek the true God, nor will he accept the true God as there has to be revelation, inspiration and illumination and faith that follows. It is only after man has received those 3 things from God that he then, imo, can make a choice. Or God can choose to harden Him early in life if He knows he never will truly repent. Pharoah showed his true colors when he let the people go, then went after them.
     
  20. webdog

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    Your explanation is like a fruit fly trying to explain how the international space station works. At any rate your explanation is full of holes. He told Cain what to do, so according to your logic his call was made to a regenerated Cain. If not regenerated, God decided to throw out a foolish call to someone He had no intention of regenerating in order to obey. If God speaks to someone, you better believe it is purposeful and has meaning, and if your theology disagrees...your theology needs to change.
     

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