Town Clerk refuses to obey law

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Salty, Sep 15, 2011.

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Do you support this town clerk disobeying the law?

  1. Yes, I do

    6 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No, there are no excuses for disobeying the law

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. Not sure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other answer

    4 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Salty

    Salty
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  2. carpro

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    The 1ST amendment trumps state authority. She is within her rights.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    This is not about the Clerk's opinion.

    The clerk is a representative of the municipality and the law. As long as the couples presenting themselves for marriage are in compliance to the existing laws (whether or not we agree with the laws), they should be granted the license.

    If the clerk believes this conflicts with her beliefs, she needs to resign.
     
  4. preachinjesus

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    She should, out of deference for authority placed over her, resign her position and pursue private ventures if she chooses. Public officers are subject to both voters and the laws/regulations that dictate their positions.

    I agree that she should object, but her greater obligation is to either fulfill her duties or leave the office.
     
  5. matt wade

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    If you aren't willing to do what your employer asks you (either private or public employer) then quit.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    I chose "other". While I commend her on her stance, how she is doing it is wrong and rebellion. So No I do not agree with her. She does not have a biblical leg to stand on to disobey this law. She has sworn an oath to uphold the law. By refusing to not uphold it in the name of the Lord she is using her faith as a cloak of unrighteousness. What she should have done is quit, not refuse to obey this law she swore to obey. There is no command not to sign such papers. She is wrong in my opinion. It would be different if she was required to stop someone from preaching the gospel, then she could refuse and accept the consequences, but she has no command in this area and her actions are rebellious towards authority that God has put in place making her action against God.
     
    #6 freeatlast, Sep 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2011
  7. carpro

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    Other arrangements have been made to serve the needs of the public. No one is being deprived of service and she is allowed to live her faith at the same time.

    Seems to be a very good solution, but misguided Christians will partner with unbelievers to require her dismissal.

    For what? Not for not upholding her duties. She's made arrangements to do that. But for having the guts to take a Christian stand.

    Shameful.
     
  8. annsni

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    I believe that she was very wise in realizing that she could not carry out one aspect of her job and figured out another solution. If her bosses chose to not agree then she should step down but they agreed - and from what I understand it is perfectly legal to do what she proposed. So this way she can continue to do her job AND she can follow her beliefs.

    Now if she were Muslim, this wouldn't even be an issue most likely.
     
  9. matt wade

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    What is shameful is conservatives that talk out of both sides of their mouth. On one hand these conservatives feel that we shouldn't regulate business and employers and that the relationship between an employer and the employee should simply be between those two. But, once a person's religion comes in to play (and only if that religion is the same as the conservative), all bets are off. At that point the employee can do whatever they wish and the employer has no rights to say anything about it.

    In reality though, these people aren't true conservatives. A true conservative stance (the one I take) is that employers can make up any silly rules they want and require employees to do whatever they feel. The employees can then work that job or find another. All this "employee's rights" jazz is simply liberalism and has no place coming from conservatives.
     
  10. billwald

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    >The letter cited Belforti’s religious beliefs as a reason she could not sign marriage licenses for same-sex couples.

    Read more: http://auburnpub.com/news/local/article_dcc6cd82-df4a-11e0-b406-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1Y4saFqE6

    Only a fanatic would jeopardize a job over a redefining of a word. Would she also insist on using "homosexual" instead of "gay?" And "Negro?"

    If the State had simply substituted "civil contract" for "marriage license" in the law would the problem be resolved?
     
  11. carpro

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    Nice rant. Got anything to say pertaining to this particular situation?
     
  12. righteousdude2

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    While Her Stand is Commendable....

    ....She should resign as soon as she can do so without causing her own income and well-being to be in jeopardy.

    Some may think she should resign now. However, if she, for example, is the sole bread winner for her family, and she has children to provide for. It would be wise to find a new job before cutting ties with her current employer.

    I do think she has to follow her beliefs, and I commend her for making this stand.
     
  13. carpro

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    I would ordinarily agree if a satisfactory alternative was not already in place.

    No one is being denied a service. So, what's the problem?
     
  14. TC

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    I commend her for this and IMNSHO since she has made arrangements for that part of the job to get done with the cities approval, she has no reason to resign. It is also my opinion that if people can go to a deputy clerk and get the license they want, even if it is by appointment, the law is not being disobeyed.
     
  15. Salty

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    There are two main issues here that have not been addressed:

    1) NY State requires: "...A similar “reasonable accommodation” requirement exists with respect to an applicant’s or employee’s religious beliefs and practices."
    (click here for link )

    A reasonable accommodation has been made for both customers and the clerk.

    2). The Bible tells us in Acts 5:29
    Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    I believe she should NOT resign. I am thankful that she is standing up for morality.
     
  16. billwald

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    >1) NY State requires: "...A similar “reasonable accommodation” requirement exists with respect to an applicant’s or employee’s religious beliefs and practices."

    On the other hand, it would be slimy for a person to get a job with police or fire - or McDonalds and then claim he wanted every Sunday off because he was a Christian.
     
  17. annsni

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    No, you apply for the job with that stipulation. My girls were hired by Stop and Shop with their availability after 2 pm on Sunday. The first three weeks they were given hours earlier than that and each time they explained that they could not come in due to church. Didn't help at all. But then I did step in (I don't normally go to battle for them but in this case I felt it was right because the woman deals with teenagers all day long and probably felt they were making up stuff). I explained that my girls were not sleeping off hangovers but instead were teaching Sunday School and attending church and they were not available before 2 pm. I explained that this was a religious observance and their father was a pastor and I believe that they were clear on their applications that they were not available and to please honor that. We've not had a problem in the 2 years since.
     
  18. Aaron

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    It's not about your opinion either. Title 7 of the U.S. Code requires employers to make reasonable accomodation for the religious beliefs of their employees. There is also an anti-religious discrimination act (1983) under which a missouri social worker sued and won when he was fired for not placing foster children with homosexuals. (Phillips vs Collins)

    This is about what the state may and may not coerce an individual to do.
     
  19. Salty

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    Key word is Reasonable.
    Bill, you may not realize it, but there is a big difference between working at Mickey D's and being a cop.
    I could just see it now, A cop who is a Christian has been on a stakeout - @ 8 am he tells his Sarge he must leave to go to church - yea right..!

    As I stated before, the clerk has made reasonable accommodations for both the immoral couple and the clerks office.
     
  20. billwald

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    >Bill, you may not realize it, but there is a big difference between working at Mickey D's and being a cop.

    OK, then what is the difference between a judge ordering a teacher (or whomever) to work without a union contract and slavery?
     

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