Trial date set in first of five Missouri Baptist lawsuits

The very nature of the gospel calls out for radical Christianity not always militant but radical in the sense of doing God’s will. When Jesus loved people that was not a conservative love but a radical supernatural love. It was a love that the conservatives, fundamentalists, and liberals of the day did not understand. They were more interested in their positions, than in doing God’s will. Too many conservatives and liberals today are more interested in turf wars than in living out God’s will.

So did the Sadduccees. They were the conservatives of the day.

What they are demonstrating by their actions is exactly the opposite of what you say they believe.
If conservatives really believe that then why are they in court?

Of course it is ungodly and unbiblical. The world will have a heyday with such ungodly actions. I wonder how many will come to Christ because of such actions? Those building are of such eternal value compare to souls.

Do you suggest that I stand with such ungodliness and rank worldliness?

Could you provide the quote where I ever wrote such nonsense? Those in the SBC should have taken action among themselves. They are clearly showing their real convictions and what they are living for.

It was the godly, Bible believing, Christians of the past who were already making changes long before Patterson and the gang showed up. It is not the conservatives of today who are the prime example of godliness.

Certainly they have done such a thing for al the world to see. Just imagine how many will be living for Jesus Christ because of their lives and the actions so clearly demonstrated. Just imagine what the young people are seeing by adults who are supposed to be leading them? Years ago I was in a church where some started complaining about a campground and its costs. God just took it away. The campground burned and the church gave it away. Today it is a fabulous place run by a group of people who have invested their lives in that work. I expect the SBC to die if it keeps going the way it has been.

There is good in everybody. Some provide an excellent example of what not to be like.

Seems like the paper has reported a change alright. Sounds like a lot fighting is going on to me.

Religious people and non-Christians can be conservative and do absolutely nothing in proclaiming their faith.

The conservatives were so great in AZ that they stood against those pastors who called the BFA what is was. It was the radical pastors who called the BFA what it was. It was the radical pastors who were correct.

Conservatism and liberalism are not opposed. In many ways they are only slightly different. If you read your Bible in MT 19:1-9, you will find that Jesus was shunned by the conservatives and liberals.

The fundamentalists of today and liberals are very much alike. They lie in the same bed just on opposite ends.

 

You defended my point well. I believe God is not honored by their actions. It also shows what they really believe.

 

I would appreciate you not exaggerating my viewpoint. I explained numerous times what I believed and again you came up with the same statement as you had before suggesting I believed things I did not. Perhaps some questions might be good if you really want to debate some issues and care to know where I stand. When you are ready to debate then you must be willing to answer the tough questions too. There have been those on the BB who have asked me some tough questions that have been life changing. They caused me to examine my own viewpoint.

Again and again I asked you for the answers to some very practical minded questions and very few were answered. I have to live amongst real people in a tangible world. I want to what is right and honors God. If you have a better suggestion then let all of us who read your writings know.

If you want to debate some issues I have no problem. Ask me the tough questions because I will be better for it. However, I would appreciate that if you want to get into the fire that you would also let me ask you some tough questions. There are many things today that I would disagree with what I once believed. I would hope everyone would find the same things to be true because they are growing.

I am not interested in hurling insults at anyone. I cannot see how God is glorified through that kind of demeanor.

 

From the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132


Let's Be Real

Truthfully, while disciple-making must be a priority for you, by whatever means you select, you must enter the process with your eyes open. What happens when you make true disciples - not just students or group members, but real zealots for Christ?

Peoples lives change
The collection of disciples - the true Church - gains favor with the world.
Society is changed by the disciples.
Society experiences turmoil as a result of the Church being true to God's truths and commands.
Disciples are persecuted.

Making disciples and being a disciple is not a complete joyride. Disciple-making is not the answer to every cultural problem that exists - in fact, an effective discipleship process may create new tensions and animosities within the culture as God's principles clash with Satan's principles in the battle of spiritual kingdoms. But the hardships that arise as a result of engagement in disciple-making are no excuse to avoid or minimize our devotion to the process and its outcomes; in fact, they are an indicator that the Church is being the Church. As long as the battle between good and evil persists, we will not experience a peaceful, loving, wholly satisfying society. However, while being avid, passionate disciples of Jesus Christ will not bring about the perfect society, the thrust to be true disciples is the answer for each of us, individually, in the quest to become pleasing and honorable people in God's eyes.

We cannot help but have a positive impact on the world when we are being Christ-like, even though the results of our life may not always look pretty. Not even Jesus, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace, the Savior of Humankind, was loved by all people. If we follow His ways and His footsteps, we should not expect to be loved and accepted by everyone either. But God, the Father of Creation, was completely pleased with the work of the Son - and that was all that mattered to the Son. So Jesus is our model and that is our challenge: to gain the acceptance of the Father, by imitating the work of the Son, through the empowerment of the Spirit. The results that emerge are up to God to disentangle. That is a task clearly beyond our capabilities.

When you hire people, you study their lives to look for clues as to what they will be like as an employee. When you buy products, you study the contents and reviews to determine which products will provide the outcomes you desire. As you strive to become a disciple and to make disciples, keep your eyes on the substance of the subject, whether it is you or someone whom you are discipling.

Here's what you're looking for - and, if it's absent, what you are trying to infuse within the true disciple:
the passion of Stephen
the joy of the post-Pentecost apostles
the integrity of Nathanael
the availability of Mary
the perseverance of Paul
the transformation of Peter
the wisdom of James
the servanthood of Martha
the love of John
the generosity of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus
the seriousness of John the Baptist
the studiousness of Luke
the humility and reverent faith of the centurion
the evangelistic sharing of Andrew
the character of Jesus

None of these stalwarts of the faith (with the exception of Jesus) was a perfect representation of each of the qualities listed here. Each of these individuals stood out for a handful of qualities, and presumably worked on developing other qualities that brought them into greater conformity with Jesus' life. As you study their paths to glory keep in mind that even the models of our faith fell short of the glory of God. By our very nature, we always will; but by God's will, we must not accept our limitations as excuses to give up.

The real obstacles to becoming a fully devoted, zealous disciple of Christ are not money, time, methods or knowledge. The major obstacle is the human heart. When that changes, all else changes. Jesus frequently reminded His disciples that the problem was not one of knowledge but of character The Pharisees had more religious knowledge than they knew what to do with but they lacked the character to apply it in ways that transformed themselves and their world. Judas spent many months living with Jesus, observing His ways and His miracles, learning timeless and transforming principles directly from the lips of the Master, and yet all of His knowledge and experience could not compensate for a wicked heart. A disciple is a person of Christian character. Just as Paul instructed his young disciple Timothy, if you develop appropriate character, the rest will follow.

Go, Therefore...
Be a true disciple. Go and make disciples.
And what will it look like, when it works?

True discipleship produces holistic personal transformation, not mere assimilation into a community of church members.

True discipleship is witnessed by people who are determined to be a blessing to others - people who are never content to simply accept and enjoy God's blessings to them.

True discipleship creates Christians who aggressively pursue spiritual growth rather than passively experience spiritual evolution.

True discipleship spawns individuals who develop renewed lifestyles instead of believers who mechanically check off completed assignments on a developmental agenda.

True discipleship results in people who are more concerned about the quality of their character than the extent of their knowledge.

True discipleship builds churches known for their culture of love, commitment and service rather than for their events, information and programs.

True discipleship facilitates people devoted to a lifelong journey to imitate Jesus Christ, rather than the completion of a short-term regimen of tasks and responsibilities.

Do you passionately want to become a zealous disciple of Jesus Christ? Are you committed to bring others with you on that amazing journey?

Discipleship is about complete obedience to the Word of God, driven by a heart that can stand to do nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing else. Can we fulfill this mammoth challenge? Jesus, our mentor, says we can. "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these..." (John 14:12)

If you are devoted to the process of spiritual growth, and to allowing God's Holy Spirit to shape you on that journey, how you end up will bear scant resemblance to what you were when you began the journey.

 

The one question I have is why did they not settle their dispute among themselves instead of going to a secular court, most likely heard before a non-Christian judge, published in a secular newspaper, and broadcasted over secular media at prime time?

Is that how the world knows we are Christians by our love for one another? It is better to be lied about and defrauded. Our home is not in this place. We know they are laying up for themselves treasures on earth.

This issue reveals the hearts of the people involved. We know where their tresasure is. The whole thing should be taken away from everyone involved. If they keep it up I believe that nothing will be gained except maybe some property. It could reach a point where they will have to sell that because they will not be able to maintain it.