Tribulation Temple?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Truth Files, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    Jesus refers to the holy "place" and says that there must be correct understanding of what He is saying. He does not say the "temple", but refers to the holy "place" [Matthew 24:15]

    Pronunciation Guide
    topos {top'-os}
    TDNT Reference Root Word
    TDNT - 8:187,1184
    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
    a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
    b) a place (passage) in a book

    Pronunciation Guide
    anaginosko {an-ag-in-oce'-ko}
    TDNT Reference Root Word
    TDNT - 1:343,55
    from 303 and 1097
    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) to distinguish between, to recognise, to know accurately, to acknowledge
    2) to read

    Pronunciation Guide
    noeo {no-eh'-o}
    TDNT Reference Root Word
    TDNT - 4:948,636
    from 3563
    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) to perceive with the mind, to understand, to have understanding
    2) to think upon, heed, ponder, consider

    The Place of the Lord's Sanctuary [Daniel 8:11, 8:13]

    Pronunciation Guide
    makown {maw-kone'}
    TWOT Reference Root Word
    TWOT - 964c
    from 03559
    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) fixed or established place, foundation
    a) fixed place
    b) foundation

    Pronunciation Guide
    miqdash {mik-dawsh'}
    TWOT Reference Root Word
    TWOT - 1990f
    from 06942
    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) sacred place, sanctuary, holy place
    a) of the temple
    b) of the tabernacle
    c) of Ezekiel's temple
    d) of Jehovah

    The temple of the lawless one [2Thessolonians 2:4]

    Pronunciation Guide
    naos {nah-os'}
    TDNT Reference Root Word
    TDNT - 4:880,625
    from a primary naio (to dwell)
    Outline of Biblical Usage

    1) used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

    2) any heathen temple or shrine

    3) metaph. the spiritual temple consisting of the saints of all ages joined together by and in Christ


    The "holy place" referred to in the setting of the coming 70th week decreed for Israel is the temple mount area and not a rebuilt edifice [a temple of the Lord's on the earth]. The actual temple was destroyed in the first century and is no longer there. The Lord has said that not one stone would be left standing of His first century temple and this fact is still true today .... and will be during His coming hour [time] of trial and judgment. It was destroyed during the Roman invasions of 70 A.D. [Matthew 24:1-2]

    Satan's "man of lawlessness" will sit in the temple of "his" god, showing that he is god [either the Muslim Dome of the Rock or the Al Aqsa Mosque]. Paul understood the relationship between a pagan god and the related heathen temple. [2Thessalonians 2:4]

    There are no instructions contained in scripture to rebuild a temple for the Lord before He establishes His millennial Kingdom on the earth. There are instructions for rebuilding in this future time frame just after the 70th week decreed for Israel. [Ezekiel 40-48]

    The Lord's temple is seen in Revelation several times during the coming tribulation period of His wrath upon earth, but it is His temple in heaven and not one on the earth. In fact, the outer court of the temple mount on the earth is "without" His temple and the mount [court] will be trampled [controlled] by satan's little horn/beast and his human followers [the adherents of Islam] during his 42 month [1,260 day] rule. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7; Matthew 24:15-16; 2Thessalonians 2:3-12; Revelation 9:11; 11:1-19; 12:12; 13:1-8; 17:8 ]

    The first 1,260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel will include satan's bid for control over the earth through his angelic agents and human followers. This period will be an extreme time of devastation and destruction including the fall of the "great city" [civilization] of the Gentiles [nations] and the release of millions of satan's angelic hosts. [Revelation 8; 9; 14; 17; 18]

    The Lord will continue to harbor [protect] national Israel from invasion and occupation and this has been the case since 1948. His protection will continue until just before the middle of the coming 70th week. [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 38:8-16; Zechariah 14]

    Satan's followers will then be in position without opposition to invade, occupy, and add the holy land, Jerusalem, and the temple mount area to the dominion of his man of lawlessness, the little horn/beast, king of the northern Middle East [Revelation 11:2; 13:5]
     
    #1 Truth Files, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2010
  2. RAdam

    RAdam
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    Matthew 24:15 is synonomous with Luke 21:20. The "holy place" was Jerusalem. The abomination of desolation were the armies that surrounded Jerusalem.
     
  3. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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  4. RAdam

    RAdam
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    Revelation 21? That's not the Jerusalem that now is, but the heavenly Jerusalem.

    Luke 21:20 was fulfilled in AD 70.
     
  5. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    Jerusalem will always continue to exist .... it is the Lord's city [Micah 4; Zechariah 14]

    And 70 A.D. was not the time of the end that the Lord speaks about in His discourse

    All Bible prophecy is congruent and there are many details in His projections and in the visions of His Bible prophets for the coming time of the end which simply did not take place in 70 A.D.

    All will be fulfilled 100% at the time
     
    #5 Truth Files, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2010
  6. RAdam

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    The Lord spoke about two distinct events in the Olivet Discourse. One was AD 70 and the other is His second coming.
     
  7. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    I don't believe there is anything regarding the Roman invasions of 70 A.D. in the discourse .... neither do the Bible prophets have the same, none of them

    The Lord is projecting long and to a time that is still pending today

    Israel has returned in part as the prophecies clearly tell; the nation is in place for experiencing the time of the end that He presents
     
  8. RAdam

    RAdam
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    This is where the two extremes of end times prophecy fall apart. Both futurism and preterism err in placing all of the Olivet Discourse into one event. Jesus gives a clear sign of one event and then turns around and says no man would know when the second event would occur. He's talking about two distinct events. Luke 21:20-24 has been fulfilled, and in incredible detail. The Jews were carried away captive into all nations and the city of Jerusalem is currently trodden down of the Gentiles. Notice the similarity between that last part and Romans 11, that says that blindness in part is happened unto Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in.
     
  9. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    Sorry, but I see this differently than you do, so let's let the difference stand

    I agree with part of what you tell, but not all of it

    There is no purpose in argumentation here
     
  10. lastday

    lastday
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    Lastday

    RAdam,
    Great analysis my friend; Truth Files misses the mark by comparing the New Jerusalem with the Temple in the earthly Jerusalem!
    The Temple was destroyed in AD 70 to fulfill Luke 21:20!!
    The Temple need NOT be destroyed in 2030 to fulfill Matt.24:15!!!

    If Antichrist breaks the 70th "7" Covenant in 20 years, he will desecrate the Temple in Jerusalem but he will NOT destroy the Temple. We agree with Truth Files that AD 70 was not the time for the End. But while the Jews "fled" Jerusalem in AD 67 and may flee in 2030, the similarity of results does NOT extend to the time period of the End when both Jews and Believers will be Raptured to meet Jesus in the air or Rescued at the Hour of Trial.

    Jesus has Endtime Believers in mind in Matthew's account because the 3.5
    Endtime period has a double purpose. One, Christians will know the End is near and that they must prove their faith in the Jewish Messiah in order to fulfill Rom.11:11 to make them "jealous" by their faithfulness...even "unto death" for the One rejected by the Jews. Two, Luke's account skips over the 3.5 year period to show that ONLY during the Endtime will Jews begin to realize the End is near.

    The existence of the Endtime Temple is part of the evidence that will lead to the expectation of Jews for their Messiah! The Prophesying and Witnessing of Elijah and John, IMO, will add to their conviction that the End is Near...and on the last day, 100 verses in Revelation will be fulfilled to convince them that "their redemption AND Kingdom are near"!! When they see the Elect coming WITH their Messiah on that same Day, they will "mourn and beg to escape all these things and to be able to stand before the Son of Man"!!! Luke 21:28,31,36.

    That's why Truth Files is wrong to designate the HOUR of Trial as the entire period of 7 years. That HOUR comes "suddenly, as a snare, on the Day of Wrath, the Day on which Jesus will gather the Elect from earth in glorified physical bodies" (Mark 13:27; 2 Thess.1:10; Luke 21:35; Luke 17:30). The Day on which Israel will be rescued and restored as the People of God under the New Covenant goes into effect immediately so that "all mankind will
    know the Lord...from the least to the greatest".

    The Elect are the prime subjects in Matt.24. The Jews are prime subjects in Luke 21. So the thrust of the message puts the "days of vengeance and wrath" against the Jews between AD 70 and the End of Gentile Times. Luke 21:22-24. But the days of God's "anger" (thumos; not orgay) are limited to the 1260 (plus 3 or 4) Endtime days alone...until the Day of Wrath which is limited to the 7th Trumpet on the Day Christ APPEARS in Person.
    Mel
     
    #10 lastday, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2010
  11. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    Agreed. The holy place was Jerusalem. But then came (also past tense) the fulfilment of this passage in John 4:

    19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.

    20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

    21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.

    22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.

    23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

    24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”


    Where do we worship God ever since this time? In spirit and in truth. No place ever again can have any significance.
     

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