Trichotomy

Actually, about a year ago I went through a class (not necessarily that I understood or even agreed with all of it). That explained the theory very well. The physical portion, no problem, but when we got into the spirit and soul
there was a discussion that animals have (one or the other) I can't remember which, because they were living and aware they were living.

It was pointed out truthfully, that a dog is aware; he is aware of his surroundings, he is also aware that he is a dog (to a certain extent); but he has no awareness of a creator, nor does he care. That is simply the way the creator made him.

However, I'm not sure I could buy this argument very much because if you look at other animals, you have varying degrees of awareness depending on the size of the physical brain, all the way down to a turtle that will continue to walk after his head is cut off because most of his motor skills are in his spinal cord. So, I think the "spirit" idea is more of a term given to animal life.

As far as material and immaterial. We must remember that we are obviously living in a time and space 3 (maybe 4 or 5--without getting into the science) dimensional universe that God created for us.

I believe the spiritual portion may even exist outside of that plane in possibly the same plane or dimension that the angels and God inhabit. This is not something explainable because God CREATED the physical dimensions. He created time, so man could move forward through it. When God looks at the stage, then He sees everything at once. (Even the crucifiction of Jesus.) In fact, that last thought makes me think that His sacrifice may be more meaningful than we realize due to the lack of time in God's, so called, universe or world.

So, Michelle, did make a good point, that we have physical dimensions and then we have a spiritual dimension (because we were made in the image of God, as she pointed out earlier). So, I honestly think that those that try to seperate spirit and soul are just getting a little over-complex in an already complex situation. I do have to agree with Michelle, that I think it is more of a matter of terminology than reality.

 

The image of God can also be seen in the family. The husband is the head, the wife is from the man and is submissive to him, and the children are the seed from the man and the woman. Just as God the Father is the head and Jesus Christ, the Son of God comes from the bosom of the Father and is submissive to him, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from Both. This can be seen in the man also. The spirit of the man is the head of the man, and his mind is submissive to the spirit, to which both is manifest through the work in the flesh. Then we have the Church, to which Jesus Christ is the head, and the church comes from the bosom of Jesus Christ to which the Holy Spirit/light is made manifest. This is the way I have understood this from what God has revealed in the scriptures. God has made it evident the image of God, in more than one way.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

But Michelle, can you not understand that that is not a biblical proposition? The Bible nowhere teaches such a thing. If we want to start making up our own analogies we could say a lot of things. We could argue that man is only two parts because the cross that Jesus died on only had two parts. One part touched the ground (which would be the body); the other part didn't touch the ground (the spirit). Or we could say that man has two parts because the earth is made of water and land. The land is the physical part of man, the body. The spirit is the water part. You say "Those are silly." And I say, "My point exactly."

YOu complained earlier about me not using Scripture (an inaccurate charge I say). But you have certainly employed a double standard since you have no used Scripture for this.

 

My belief comes from the scriptures. It is not an analogy, but scriptural truth. God created man in his own image. What is the image of God? You have yet to attempt to answer this question, and scripturally. Once you do, then it will be clear. for you to see. God does not desire us to be confused on this issue, or any other issue. Study and learn. God will show you the truth. It is not something that God has NOT shown us, but INDEED HAS SHOWN US, in more than one way.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Exactly, Pastor Larry, we could have my brain is the father, my heart is the Son and so on. People in the past have shown comparisons like this to other things, but often it is just a personal interpretation of scripture rather than a "reality of scripture".

When we start "interpreting" scripture to others, we can become dangerous, because WE can be WRONG, in our interpretion.

I have actually seen or heard some pastors go way overboard on symbolism, some that were a far stretch of the imagination. To me, too much of this is beyond the scope of the pastor's duties when preaching.

 

The last part of your sentence falls short of scripture. The implication of your sentence is that the "Holy Spirit" is something generated or extruded from the combination of the Father and God. I do not believe this to be scriptural.

This leads one to believe that the Holy Spirit was a result of some type of union; or if not that was a created being.

 

The symbolism of Christ and the Church as being bridegroom and bride IS scriptural. There's your difference.

 

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The last part of your sentence falls short of scripture. The implication of your sentence is that the "Holy Spirit" is something generated or extruded from the combination of the Father and God. I do not believe this to be scriptural.

This leads one to believe that the Holy Spirit was a result of some type of union; or if not that was a created being.
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I did not say generated, or created. I said proceed, just as the scriptures say. Do you understand the meaning of the word "proceed"?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Again, Michelle lecturing on "if you could understand you'd understand", as if everyone else is beneath her level of intelligence. How sad.

Michelle, the way you worded that statement, though, does make it seem like the Holy Spirit is a lesser being instead of co-equal with the Father and the Son.

 

Yes, you get mad when we speak down to you Michelle, and my first response at your question was one that I had to ask repentance for.

Yes, I do understand the word "proceed", but in your metaphor, the Holy Spirit appeared to be the child in the family. Unless, I completely misread it. Therefore, regardless of your specific word "proceed" it implied as the result of a "process" of the union of the parents. (Jesus and the Father).

If you will kindly tone down your responses a bit, then I think you will find that you are better accepted when the debates get tough. Just a humble opinion. . .

 

"Proceed" To move or go forward or onward especially after STOPPING. Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language.

This is also another reason we MUST be careful looking at individual words even in Bible translations. We must look at things in context. The translator, in his/her attempt to emulate the original meaning of a word or phrase may use a word which may not be the best suited for the Scripture.

For example, as I pointed out, in context with your metaphor, proceed was not a good choice, because if the Holy Spirit represented the child, then a child has a beginning with the union of the parents.

That might be a little clearer.

 

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Yes, I do understand the word "proceed", but in your metaphor, the Holy Spirit appeared to be the child in the family. Unless, I completely misread it.
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Yes. You completely misread and twisted it. You do this alot, and it seems as though you do it because, like I said, you have a bias against me.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

That is only if you look at the Holy Spirit as a created being, to which He is not. The Holy Spirit is eternal and is God. The scriptures say proceed. YOu have taken your bias, and not only misread what I wrote, and misunderstood it because of this bias and then twisted what was actaully said, to which comes from your biased opinion of me, rather than looking at the truth and what was actually said.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Again, Michelle lecturing on "if you could understand you'd understand", as if everyone else is beneath her level of intelligence. How sad.
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Yes. If many would understand scriptural truth, then they WOULD UNDERSTAND. Many I fear, do not understand the scriptures and this is very sad.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

This is your opinion, and only that. Just because others don't agree with your interpretation doesn't make yours right. Again, as stated in another thread, you've got a self righteous, pompous, arrogant, know it all attitude. Believe me, sister, you don't know half of what many here have forgotten in their years of ministry.

 

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This is your opinion, and only that. Just because others don't agree with your interpretation doesn't make yours right. Again, as stated in another thread, you've got a self righteous, pompous, arrogant, know it all attitude. Believe me, sister, you don't know half of what many here have forgotten in their years of ministry.
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What saith the scriptures? Does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son or not? It is not MY OPINION, but SCRIPTURAL TRUTH. Therefore, you are actually calling scriptural truth self-righteous, arrogant, pompus, etc. And you call me judgemental? These are merely your own biased opinions of me, not based on truth.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Again, the victim act Michelle? Get over it. The way you had it posted put it into question. Don't try to change that point. I'm not the only one who saw the validity of that point. And let me point out, young lady, don't get all self righteous with me. I'm one who will fight back! Again, there are many here who have forgotten more than you'll ever learn in their many years in the ministry!

 

Answer my question before you falsely accuse me and pass judgement: what saith the scriptures?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

WHY? Are you so judgemental? Just because I do NOT agree with you, then you say I'm biased. I have agreed with you before and we did fine, right up until I disagree then you go BALLISTIC. Personally, I am getting a little tired of the judgement on everyone, emanating from your keyboard.

 

Now YOU show me how I twisted this:

Michelle,

The image of God can also be seen in the family. The husband is the head, the wife is from the man and is submissive to him, and the children are the seed from the man and the woman. Just as God the Father is the head and Jesus Christ, the Son of God comes from the bosom of the Father and is submissive to him,


Phillip:
The Father and Jesus are synonomous with the husband and wife. Jesus, like the wife is "submissive" to the husband.


Michelle:

and the Holy Spirit proceeds from Both.

Phillip:
The Holy Spirit MUST be the child because we ALREADY HAVE the mother and father in the statement above.

NOW, HOW "exactly" did I twist it around, Michelle? And if you call me biased again for debating your facts I am going to report it to the moderator. Like I said, if you cannot keep the personal attacks whether or not they are your opinions down, then you need to examine YOURSELF in a mirror!